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الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل ( ادْعُ إِلَى سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ )

تمنع جميع الحوارات السياسيه فى المنتدى مهما كان نوعها سواء مدح أو ذم ,,, ومنع طرح المواضيع الخلافيه الموجوده على الساحه العربيه الان مهما كان نوعها ومن تخالف هذا القرار للإداره حق التصرف بما تراه مناسب ونسأل الله أن يسدد خطانا جميعا اللهم آآمين الحوارات السياسيه

   
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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-03-2012 الساعة : 09:49 PM

السلام عليكم


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".

1.

MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:

Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):

i)

Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]

ii)

Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

iii)

Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)

Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]

iv)

Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).

v)

Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."

iv)

Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18)
.
2.

It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."


3.

Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".

4.

prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:

Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.

1.

John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2.

Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

3.

Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos
is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).


4.

Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".




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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-04-2012 الساعة : 12:25 PM

رد جديد من شخص جديد بعد ارسال Bible Prophecies of Muhammad (part 2 of 4): Old Testament Prophecies of Muhammad

I answer this with the same answer muslims themselves give, its not in the Koran.



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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-04-2012 الساعة : 12:27 PM

رد جديد من شخص جديد بعد ارسال Bible Prophecies of Muhammad (part 2 of 4): Old Testament Prophecies of Muhammad

I answer this with the same answer muslims themselves give, its not in the Koran.



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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-04-2012 الساعة : 01:27 PM

بعد ارسال Bible Prophecies of Muhammad (part 3 of 4): New Testament Prophecies of Muhammad
جاء ردين من شخص واحد

الاول

Jihadwatch

"Muhammad Merah as I knew him": Post on jihadi forum says Toulouse
jihad killer was "pious Muslim"
Here is yet more cognitive dissonance regarding the consistent line of
the mainstream media, the government, and Islamic groups in the U.S.,
all of whom maintain that no jihad killer is or could be a true
Muslim. Yet the jihadis themselves just as consistently claim the
mantle of Islamic authenticity, and gain recruits among peaceful
Muslims as they do so. This anomaly has never been explained;
apparently, the American people are now sheeplike enough for the
elites not to feel as if they have to bother doing so.

Jund al-Khalifa said this about Merah's murders of Jewish children and
a rabbi in Toulouse: "We hereby claim responsibility for these blessed
operations...O' enemies of Allah, by Allah we will not calm down and
we will not sleep until we kill you like you killed us, and until we
avenge the honors of the free ones, our sisters who are sitting in the
prisons of the Jews and in European countries."

"Post on Jihadi Forum: 'Muhammad Merah as I Knew Him,'" from MEMRI,
April 2 (thanks to David):

On April 1, 2012, an individual calling himself Abu Al-Qa'qa' Al-
Andalusi posted a message on the Ansar Al-Mujahideen message board
titled "Muhammad Merah as I Knew Him". Abu Al-Qa'qa' claims that both
he and Merah were members of "Jund Al-Khilafa," the jihad group that
has claimed responsibility for Muhammad Merah's killings....
In the post, Abu Al-Qa'qa' gives details about Merah's travels to
Afghanistan and Pakistan, which he allegedly heard from Merah himself.
He strongly rejects the Western media's claims that Merah was a
disturbed young man, describing him as a pious Muslim and praising his
technological skills and his eagerness in training to be a mujahid. He
adds that Merah was supposed to carry out a suicide bombing in
Afghanistan, but that his plan was abandoned for reasons he is not at




التعديل الأخير تم بواسطة شمائل ; 04-06-2012 الساعة 12:21 AM.


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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-04-2012 الساعة : 01:28 PM

الثاني

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran...es/cradle.html



Muhammad, the Qur'an, and Christian Sources
Abstract


Muhammad used several sources as information for his recital of the
Qur'an. One of these sources were the fables of the Christians living
in and nearby Arabia at that time. This paper describes two of the
Christian fables Muhammad recited into the Qur'an.
Introduction

Muhammad had interaction with Christians. Khadija, his first wife, had
a cousin named Waraqa, who was a Christian (Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 83,
Guillaume's translation). He also was known to have spoken with
Christians earlier on in his life during his travels with the
caravans. Later, he was given a Christian slave girl as a present.
This was Mary, the Egyptian Copt. She became his concubine. After she
gave birth to a male child, he married her. No doubt he learned about
some facts of Christianity from Mary as well. Further south of Medina,
these was the Christian village of Najran. These people also had some
dealings with Muhammad.

From these people Muhammad could have learned about Christianity and
the Christian fables that circulated in the land.

In various places, the Qur'an mentions stories that are similar to
those found in the NT. People and names are repeated, and some
similarites exist between the NT and Qur'an. And as one would expect a
story to change when it is told to and then repeated second or third
hand, so too the Qur'anic versions of the stories differ from those
that were earlier documented.

These Qur'anic stories are typical of those one would expect to find
in the record of a man relying exclusively on hearsay and secondary
sources because Muhammad could not read the books from which the
Christians used.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DETAILS

Here are two Christian fables that Muhammad heard of, and then recited
into the Qur'an.

1) JESUS SPEAKING FROM THE CRADLE


He shall preach to men in his cradle and in the prime of manhood, and
shall lead a righteous life.
Sura 3:46.
Another reference to this is Sura 19:28-34:


"O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother
a harlot. Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one
who is a child in the cradle? He said: "I am indeed a servant of
Allah. He has given me the Book and has made me a prophet. And has
made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me prayer
and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, And (has made me) dutiful
toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest. Peace
on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be
raised alive! Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of
the truth concerning which they doubt.
2) JESUS TURNING CLAY BIRDS INTO LIVING BIRDS


He will say: "I bring you a sign from your Lord. From clay I will make
for you the likeness of a bird. I shall breath into it and, by God's
leave, it shall become a living bird."
Sura 3:49
Both of these events, the speaking in the cradle and the birds from
clay are mentioned again in Sura 5:110


When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee
and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so
that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I
taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and
how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My
permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission,
and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My
permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and
how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou
camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved
exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic;


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOURCES

#1 probably came from the Injilu 't Tufuliyyah better known as the
Arabic "Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ". It is a 2nd century
Arabic apocryphal fable from Egypt. This is the possible source for
the referenced verse in the Qur'an. Here is the similar passage from
the Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ:


... Jesus spake when he was in the cradle, and said to his mother:
"Mary, I am Jesus the Son of God, the Word, which thou didst bring
forth according to the declaration of the angel Gabriel, and My Father
hath sent me for the salvation of the world."[1]
Comparing the two verses, it's another obvious plagerism of
Muhammad's. In #1, Muhammad revised what he had heard, to bring it
into accord with his own beliefs and teachings.

#2 comes from "The Gospel of Thomas the Israelite".

(Not the same document as the "Gospel of Thomas" that claims to be a
real biblical Gospel. "The Gospel of Thomas the Israelite" is a known
and documented book of fables, that only happens to have a similar
name to the "Gospel of Thomas".)

Here is the similar passage:


The child Jesus, when 5 years of age, was playing on the road by a
dirty stream of running water; and having brought it all together into
ditches, immediately made it pure and clean; by saying a single word.
Then having moistened some earth, he made of it twelve sparrows. And
it was the Sabbath day when he did these things. There were many other
children playing with him. Now a Jew, seeing what Jesus did, that he
was playing on the Sabbath day, went his way to (Jesus') father
Joseph. He said, "Behold, your son is at the stream of dirty water,
and having taken up some mud, has made of it twelve sparrows, thus
desecrating the Sabbath. On this Joseph went to the spot, and cried
out, "Why did you do these things on the Sabbath day which it is not
lawful to do?" Jesus then clapped his hands at the sparrows and cried
aloud to them, "Go off!" So they, clucking, flew away. The Jews seeing
it were astonished, and went and told their rulers what they had seen
Jesus do."[2]
Again, note the similarities. Another Christian fable, another story
circulated by the Christians living in the Mideast. And, another fable
that made it's way into the Qur'an.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONCLUSION

Muhammad was sincere about his faith. Perhaps he wanted to gain
positive influence from the Christians and Jews living nearby by
speaking favorably about their faiths, and mentioning them in his
recital. However, time and time again, especially in dealing with
Judaism, Muhammad borrowed from their material, much of it spurious.
These fables made their way into the Qur'an, again proving that it is
not the Word of Allah, but probably a sincere effort on Muhammad's
part to guide his people in the way he believed to be best.

GThomas

References:

1. "Sources of Islam", St. Clair-Tisdall, p. 58, and "Islam Revealed",
Anis Shorrosh, p. 216.

2. "Sources of Islam", St. Clair-Tisdall, pp. 57-58.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another interesting addition, by which Muhammad made the fable even
more fabulous, are the words that Jesus supposedly spoke from the
cradle.

Muhammad was about 40 years old when he received his first revelation
and it took about 23 years until it was complete. But here, as a
newborn, Jesus supposedly already declares: "He has given me the
Book..." That is past tense. When do you think that Jesus received his
book? Has he received the Book while in the womb, before he was even
born?

The above observation is a topic more reflected upon in the article "I
am all the prophets".

Also, curiously, Muhammad seems to be aware that this fable is in
doubt, not all Christians believe this. But he decides to be on the
side of the fables instead of the authentic scriptures when he adds
his confirmation in to the end of it in 19:34 - "Such was Jesus, son
of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they
doubt."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-04-2012 الساعة : 05:44 PM

رد جديد على Bible Prophecies of Muhammad (part 1 of 4)


Religion of Peace?:
Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't [Hardcover]
Robert Spencer (Author)

Book Description
Publication Date: July 17, 2007
Christianity or Islam: which is the real "religion of peace"?
Almost any liberal pundit will tell you that there's a religion bent
on destroying our Constitution, stripping us of our liberties, and
imposing religious rule on the U.S. And that religion
is . . .Christianity! About Islam, however, the Left is silent--
except
to claim a moral equivalence between the two: if Islam has terrorists
today, that's nothing compared to the Crusades, inquisitions, and
religious wars in Christianity's past.


But is this true? Are conservative Christians really more of a threat
to free societies than Islamic jihadists? Is the Bible really "just
as
violent" as the Qur'an? Is Christianity's history really as
bloodstained as Islam's? In Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is
and
Islam Isn't, New York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer not
only
refutes such charges, but also explains why Americans and Europeans
must regain an appreciation of our Christian heritage if we ever hope
to defeat Islamic supremacism. In this eye opening work, Spencer
reveals:


* The fundamental differences between Islamic and Christian teachings
about warfare against other religions: "Love your enemies" vs. "Be
ruthless to the unbelievers"


* The myth of Western immorality and Islamic puritanism and why the
Islamic world is less moral than the West


* Why the Islamic world has never developed the distinction between
religious and secular law that is inherent in Christianity


* Why Christianity has always embraced reason--and Islam has always
rejected it


* Why the most determined enemies of Western civilization may not be
the jihadists at all, but the leftists who fear their churchgoing
neighbors more than Islamic terrorists


* Why Jews, Christians, and peoples of other faiths (or no faith) are
equally at risk from militant Islam


Spencer writes not to proselytize, but to state a fact: Christianity
is a true "religion of peace," and on it Western civilization stands.
If we are not to perish under Islam's religion of the sword--with its
more than 100 million active jihadists seeking to impose sharia law--
we had better defend our own civilization.


التعديل الأخير تم بواسطة شمائل ; 04-06-2012 الساعة 12:20 AM.


رحمك الله يا سمية

رقم العضوية : 8411
الإنتساب : Jan 1970
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شمائل غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور شمائل


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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-06-2012 الساعة : 12:27 AM

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

عذرا عن التاخر اخية

يبدو ان صاحب الرد رقم 83 وضع فايروس تحت اسمه(عليه من الله مايستحق)

المهم يبدو انهم يكررون كلام دافيد دون قراءة

هذا الرد مشترك لكل المشاركات 83 و 84 و 85



O christians, Don't look at Islam in a bad manner.
If you want to know more about Islam, then read the Quran. You will find stories of prophets, description of the Hereafter, and finally the Only God.

To order free Quran, Go to this site:
Kalamullah.Com | Hadith


ما الرد 82 فهى ملاحظ ساذجة لا يجب الالتفات اليها

وفقك الله



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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-10-2012 الساعة : 01:07 PM

رد بعد ارسال Bible Prophecies of Muhammad (part 4 of 4)

Jihadwatch

Tunisia: Islamic supremacists destroy crosses in cemetery, smear feces
on church fresco, demand that priest convert to Islam or pay jizya
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor
acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of
the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel
themselves subdued." -- Qur'an 9:29

Muslim spokesmen in the West routinely claim that this verse has no
applicability in the modern world. Here are yet more Muslims who
didn't get that memo.

Will the Islamophobia never end? "Further Vandalism of Orthodox Church
in Tunis," from Notes on Arab Orthodoxy, April 7 (thanks to Samn!):

From the Tunisian newspaper Business News. French original here.
Non-Muslim places of worship are being targeted by still-unidentified
individuals. After the attacks perpetrated against the Orthodox church
on Avenue Mohamed V, the Russian school located behind the church as
well as the Christian cemetery of Montplasir in Tunis have been
vandalized.

The walls of the school were smeared with fecal matter, as also a
fresco of Saint Siberian [sic] located in the back courtyard of the
Orthodox church, while the cemetery's crosses were destroyed....

According to the newspaper Le Maghreb, a Salafist burst into the
church during April to deliver a letter from an Islamist party called
"Hizb Allah" [not to be confused with the Lebanese party of the same
name], inviting the archpriest to convert to Islam or to take down his
church's crosses and pay the "jizya", a tribute that non-Muslims were
required to pay at the beginning of the Islamic era [and oftentimes
since then].

We note as well that the prosecutor of the Republic has ordered,
Thursday April 5, an investigation to be opened within the context of
the complaint filed by the ATSM regarding the calls made to kill Jews,
according to the declaration of Ms. Thabet Thursday on Mosaïque FM.


التعديل الأخير تم بواسطة شمائل ; 04-10-2012 الساعة 08:53 PM.


رحمك الله يا سمية

رقم العضوية : 8411
الإنتساب : Jan 1970
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بمعدل : 0.93 يوميا

شمائل غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور شمائل


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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-10-2012 الساعة : 09:05 PM

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

اختي فضلا لا تنقلي روابط في المشاركات فهم يرسلون فايروسات من خلالها

الرد



Many Times Christians post passages from the Quran on war and say that Islam is not valid because of them, because of the violence it supposedly promotes. Christians say Muhammad cannot be a prophet because he fought in wars and killed people; they say Jesus never killed anyone nor harmed any one, and that their God is loving and not a killer. Are these comments true? The simple answer is no, in this article I will quote several verses from the Bible showing the brutal terror found in it, I will be quoting from the OT. Christians should have no problem with it, since it's the same God, so hence if the God of the OT said kill then it means Jesus said kill because according to Christians Jesus is God and is the same God of the Old Testament.
Let us begin:

Deuteronomy
Chapter 2



32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

So here we have Moses and his army killing both women and children. Moses broke the 6th commandment, thou shall not kill ANYONE. Or I see, when it's in war it becomes okay? Yet when Muslims say the 6th commandment is followed, but in war its different, Christians say no and that the 6th commandment must be followed in all circumstances. Either way, The Quran does not say kill women and children, I CHALLENGE ANY CHRISTIAN TO BRING SUCH A VERSE. We rather see this in the Bible, one of your greatest prophets killing women and children by God's permission, meaning Jesus allowed it! So hence Jesus was responsible for killing women and children, and so was Moses so according to the Christians own argument, Moses cannot be a prophet since he killed. Note Moses and his army did this to many cities, verse 37 says there was not one city which was strong enough in the plural sense; hence up to 6 or 7 cities were destroyed with its women and children.

Deuteronomy
Chapter 3



1-7
1 Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. 2 And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. 3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. 4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many. 6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. 7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves


Deuteronomy
Chapter 7



1-6
1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them: 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. 5But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. 6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth


Deuteronomy
Chapter 13



6-18
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

12If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.


Once again we see the in-tolerance of the Christian God, in these passages God says that anyone who worships others Gods wherever they be must be killed. Even if your in Antarctica and you worship some pagan deity you shall be put to death. As the verse says, to the ends of the world, meaning all over the world, so there is no tolerance in their religion. God (who is Jesus according to Christians) orders his followers to stone the ones who don't believe in him, and to kill them, and to destroy the city with the sword and burn it and never rebuild it. The ending OT the paragraph is very interesting, God tells his followers TO KEEP all his commandments which include this one! To kill others who don't believe in him, so hence no religious tolerance. So this rule STILL APPLIES TODAY, because their God said:

keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

Or did God change his mind? The God of the OT does NOT change his mind:

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" Numbers 23:19

He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind." 1 Samuel 15:29

So hence the Christian God doesn't change his mind so this rule still applies today, so Christians are still ordered to kill us!


Deuteronomy
Chapter 21



18-22

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. 22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree



Deuteronomy
Chapter 22



25-29

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

So as you can see, rape is allowed in certain cases. When the victim is a virgin, she must marry the rapist, if the victim is not a virgin then the rapist is put to death. This law is a shame and insult to rape victims, you bring me one single lady who would want to marry her rapist.


Deuteronomy
Chapter 23



1-4
1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. 2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. 3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: 4 Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee

Now why can't these people go into the congregation of the lord? What happened to the God who hears all, and accepts all? It seems at one time Jesus did not like bastards, and did not like men without their private parts! I wonder what the Christian has to say to this. Why cannot Ammonites and Moabites go into the congregation of the lord? What again happened to the God who loves all and hears all?

Deuteronomy
Chapter 25



1-3

1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. 2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. 3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee

Now I can understand that punishments like this can be carried out, the reason I post this is because CHRISTIANS do not accept things like this. When they read in the Quran that it says lash the ones who commit illegal sexual intercourse, the Christians starts saying how can you do such a thing! That's so evil! So I am just using their own argument against them, so as we see, the punishment of beating a sinner is in their own book. Hence based on their own arguments and own criteria, their book and God is not peaceful and is evil, and who is this God? It is Jesus.

Deuteronomy
Chapter 28

15-68

15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. 20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. 21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. 24The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And thy carcass shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: 29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. 30 Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof. 31 Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them. 32Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long; and there shall be no might in thine hand. 33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labors, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: 34 So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. 35 The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head. 36 The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. 37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee. 38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for the locust shall consume it. 39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit. 41Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity. 42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume. 43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. 44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: 46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever. 47 Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; 48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. 49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; 50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor show favor to the young: 51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee. 52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. 53And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: 54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave: 55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter, 57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates. 58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; 59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. 60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. 61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God. 63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. 64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. 65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: 66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life: 67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. 68 And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.


Now the reason I post this is because Christians namely Craig Winn claim Islam is not peaceful because Allah Warns of punishing people who don't follow him etc. Now since Christians believe that line of argument, then using their own criteria the verses I just posted show that it is in fact their God who is violent and non peaceful because as you can see he will punish those who don't follow him in a very harsh manner.

So Christians should not throw stones if they live in a glass house, and they do live in a glass house. I wonder what Craig Winn will have to say about these verses, I mean he does believe in this God who is warning of these punishments, if Christians have a problem with Allah punishing people then why don't they have a problem with their own God when he says he will punish people?

Christians must now admit their God is violent and not peaceful since they say Allah cant be God because of his wrath and punishments, if Christians do not admit it then they can no longer argue against Islam, if they continue to use this silly argument on Islam then they must leave their own religion. So they are in a bad dilemma now, attack Islam and leave Christianity or don't attack Islam and therefore have nothing to attack Islam on.

Now let me make it easier for the reader, I will basically post what the Christian God will do as a punishment to those who wouldn't follow him:

1- God will cause his people to be murdered and massacred, and they will flee in all directions.

2- People will beget children but will not be able to enjoy them because they will be sent into slavery.

3- People's children shall be given to other people and the parents will wish they could have them back but they wont.

4- Cannibalism, yes cannibalism! 53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee

5- God will send diseases to the people

6- You will get married, and your wife will sleep with other men.

These are some of the punishments that the God of the Bible will do to his people if they dont follow him.

Numbers
Chapter 31



7-12


7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. 8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. 9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. 10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. 11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. 12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.



I wonder what Christians have to say about this? Using their own criteria against them this makes their God a false violent God. So once again Christians should not throw stones if they live in a glass house.

17-18

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves

What do Christians have to say to this? This is their God commanding Moses to kill the women and CHILDREN and to keep the virgins alive.

Joshua
Chapter 2



8-21

8And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof; 9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. 12 Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have showed you kindness, that ye will also show kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token: 13 And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death. 14 And the men answered her, Our life for yours, if ye utter not this our business. And it shall be, when the LORD hath given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with thee. 15 Then she let them down by a cord through the window: for her house was upon the town wall, and she dwelt upon the wall. 16 And she said unto them, Get you to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you; and hide yourselves there three days, until the pursuers be returned: and afterward may ye go your way. 17 And the men said unto her, We will be blameless of this thine oath which thou hast made us swear. 18 Behold, when we come into the land, thou shalt bind this line of scarlet thread in the window which thou didst let us down by: and thou shalt bring thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all thy father's household, home unto thee. 19And it shall be, that whosoever shall go out of the doors of thy house into the street, his blood shall be upon his head, and we will be guiltless: and whosoever shall be with thee in the house, his blood shall be on our head, if any hand be upon him. 20 And if thou utter this our business, then we will be quit of thine oath which thou hast made us to swear. 21 And she said, According unto your words, so be it. And she sent them away, and they departed: and she bound the scarlet line in the window.





Joshua
Chapter 8



1-29

1 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear not, neither be thou dismayed: take all the people of war with thee, and arise, go up to Ai: see, I have given into thy hand the king of Ai, and his people, and his city, and his land: 2 And thou shalt do to Ai and her king as thou didst unto Jericho and her king: only the spoil thereof, and the cattle thereof, shall ye take for a prey unto yourselves: lay thee an ambush for the city behind it.

3 So Joshua arose, and all the people of war, to go up against Ai: and Joshua chose out thirty thousand mighty men of valor, and sent them away by night. 4 And he commanded them, saying, Behold, ye shall lie in wait against the city, even behind the city: go not very far from the city, but be ye all ready: 5 And I, and all the people that are with me, will approach unto the city: and it shall come to pass, when they come out against us, as at the first, that we will flee before them, 6 (For they will come out after us) till we have drawn them from the city; for they will say, They flee before us, as at the first: therefore we will flee before them. 7 Then ye shall rise up from the ambush, and seize upon the city: for the LORD your God will deliver it into your hand. 8 And it shall be, when ye have taken the city, that ye shall set the city on fire: according to the commandment of the LORD shall ye do. See, I have commanded you. 9 Joshua therefore sent them forth: and they went to lie in ambush, and abode between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of Ai: but Joshua lodged that night among the people. 10 And Joshua rose up early in the morning, and numbered the people, and went up, he and the elders of Israel, before the people to Ai. 11 And all the people, even the people of war that were with him, went up, and drew nigh, and came before the city, and pitched on the north side of Ai: now there was a valley between them and Ai. 12 And he took about five thousand men, and set them to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. 13 And when they had set the people, even all the host that was on the north of the city, and their liers in wait on the west of the city, Joshua went that night into the midst of the valley. 14 And it came to pass, when the king of Ai saw it, that they hasted and rose up early, and the men of the city went out against Israel to battle, he and all his people, at a time appointed, before the plain; but he wist not that there were liers in ambush against him behind the city. 15 And Joshua and all Israel made as if they were beaten before them, and fled by the way of the wilderness. 16 And all the people that were in Ai were called together to pursue after them: and they pursued after Joshua, and were drawn away from the city. 17And there was not a man left in Ai or Bethel, that went not out after Israel: and they left the city open, and pursued after Israel. 18 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Stretch out the spear that is in thy hand toward Ai; for I will give it into thine hand. And Joshua stretched out the spear that he had in his hand toward the city. 19And the ambush arose quickly out of their place, and they ran as soon as he had stretched out his hand: and they entered into the city, and took it, and hasted and set the city on fire. 20 And when the men of Ai looked behind them, they saw, and, behold, the smoke of the city ascended up to heaven, and they had no power to flee this way or that way: and the people that fled to the wilderness turned back upon the pursuers. 21 And when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city, and that the smoke of the city ascended, then they turned again, and slew the men of Ai. 22 And the other issued out of the city against them; so they were in the midst of Israel
, some on this side, and some on that side: and they smote them, so that they let none of them remain or escape.

23And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua. 24 And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword. 25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai. 26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai. 27 Only the cattle and the spoil of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the LORD which he commanded Joshua. 28 And Joshua burnt Ai, and made it an heap for ever, even a desolation unto this day. 29
And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree until eventide: and as soon as the sun was down, Joshua commanded that they should take his carcass down from the tree, and cast it at the entering of the gate of the city, and raise thereon a great heap of stones, that remaineth unto this day.



Another battle, another massacare of women and children.

Joshua
Chapter 10

28-43

28 And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho. 29 Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30 And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho. 31 And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it:32 And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah. 33 Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he had left him none remaining. 34 And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him; and they encamped against it, and fought against it: 35 And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day, according to all that he had done to Lachish. 36 And Joshua went up from Eglon, and all Israel with him, unto Hebron; and they fought against it: 37 And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein. 38 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it: 39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king. 40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. 41 And Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon. 42 And all these kings and their land did Joshua take at one time, because the LORD God of Israel fought for Israel. 43 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, unto the camp to Gilgal.


Judges 1:21-35

The tribe of Benjamin, however, failed to drive out the Jebusites, who were living in Jerusalem. So to this day the Jebusites live in Jerusalem among the people of Benjamin. The descendants of Joseph attacked the town of Bethel, and the LORD was with them. They sent spies to Bethel (formerly known as Luz), who confronted a man coming out of the city. They said to him, "Show us a way into the city, and we will have mercy on you." So he showed them a way in, and they killed everyone in the city except for this man and his family. Later the man moved to the land of the Hittites, where he built a city. He named the city Luz, and it is known by that name to this day. The tribe of Manasseh failed to drive out the people living in Beth-shan, Taanach, Dor, Ibleam, Megiddo, and their surrounding villages, because the Canaanites were determined to stay in that region.
When the Israelites grew stronger, they forced the Canaanites to work as slaves, but they never did drive them out of the land. The tribe of Ephraim also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, and so the Canaanites continued to live there among them. The tribe of Zebulun also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Kitron and Nahalol, who continued to live among them. But they forced them to work as slaves. The tribe of Asher also failed to drive out the residents of Acco, Sidon, Ahlab, Aczib, Helbah, Aphik, and Rehob. In fact, because they did not drive them out, the Canaanites dominated the land where the people of Asher lived. The tribe of Naphtali also failed to drive out the residents of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath. Instead, the Canaanites dominated the land where they lived. Nevertheless, the people of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath were sometimes forced to work as slaves for the people of Naphtali. As for the tribe of Dan, the Amorites forced them into the hill country and would not let them come down into the plains. The Amorites were determined to stay in MountHeres, Aijalon, and Shaalbim, but when the descendants of Joseph became stronger, they forced the Amorites to work as slaves.


Zephaniah 2:12-15

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist

Leviticus 21:9

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.

Interesting

1Samuel 6:19-20
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?


1 Kings 20:35-36

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.

What?!


Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Another massacre.

Jeremiah 51:20-26

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD.

Another massacre, same old story.

Isaiah 13:15-18

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

It seem it gets from bad to worse!


1 Kings 13:1-2

At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you."

Very sick indeed.

Exodus 21:20-21
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property

So you can beat your slave as much as you like, just make sure IT doesn't die, and I call the slave it since a slave is a mere possession according to the Bible.

I think that should do, this without a doubt proves that the Bible that the Christians hold preaches and advocates terrorism. I challenge any Christian to come and tell me these verses which I posted are not evil and not terrorism.







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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-10-2012 الساعة : 09:57 PM

ردين من نفس الشخص بعد ارسال هذي الرساله في مجموعة قوقل ( Jesus Freaks )

و للمعلوميه هذا الشخص هو نفس الشخص إلي دائمة يرد على الرسائل إلي ارسلها

الرد الاول

Israel and the Plight of Mideast Christians
Just as Jews were once expelled from Arab lands, Christians are now
being forced from countries they have long inhabited

OPINION

By MICHAEL OREN
Business News Financial News - The Wall Street Journal - Wsj.com
March 19, 2012

The church in Bethlehem had survived more than 1,000 years, through
wars and conquests, but its future now seemed in jeopardy. Spray-
painted all over its ancient stone walls were the Arabic letters for
Hamas. The year was 1994 and the city was about to pass from Israeli
to Palestinian control. I was meeting with the church's clergy as an
Israeli government adviser on inter-religious affairs. They were
despondent but too frightened to file a complaint. The same Hamas
thugs who had desecrated their sanctuary were liable to take their
lives.

The trauma of those priests is now commonplace among Middle Eastern
Christians. Their share of the region's population has plunged from
20% a century ago to less than 5% today and falling. In Egypt, 200,000
Coptic Christians fled their homes last year after beatings and
massacres by Muslim extremist mobs. Since 2003, 70 Iraqi churches have
been burned and nearly a thousand Christians killed in Baghdad alone,
causing more than half of this million-member community to flee.
Conversion to Christianity is a capital offense in Iran, where last
month Pastor Yousef Nadarkhani was sentenced to death. Saudi Arabia
outlaws private Christian prayer.

As 800,000 Jews were once expelled from Arab countries, so are
Christians being forced from lands they've inhabited for centuries.

The only place in the Middle East where Christians aren't endangered
but flourishing is Israel. Since Israel's founding in 1948, its
Christian communities (including Russian and Greek Orthodox,
Catholics, Armenians and Protestants) have expanded more than 1,000%.

Christians are prominent in all aspects of Israeli life, serving in
the Knesset, the Foreign Ministry and on the Supreme Court. They are
exempt from military service, but thousands have volunteered and been
sworn in on special New Testaments printed in Hebrew. Israeli Arab
Christians are on average more affluent than Israeli Jews and better-
educated, even scoring higher on their SATs.

A damaged crucifix survives the burning of a Greek-Orthodox church in
Tulkarem in the West Bank on Sept. 17, 2006.

This does not mean that Israeli Christians do not occasionally
encounter intolerance. But in contrast to elsewhere in the Middle East
where hatred of Christians is ignored or encouraged, Israel remains
committed to its Declaration of Independence pledge to "ensure the
complete equality of all its citizens irrespective of religion." It
guarantees free access to all Christian holy places, which are under
the exclusive aegis of Christian clergy. When Muslims tried to erect a
mosque near the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth, the Israeli
government interceded to preserve the sanctity of the shrine.

Israel abounds with such sites (Capernaum, the Hill of the Beatitudes,
the birth place of St. John the Baptist) but the state constitutes
only part of the Holy Land. The rest, according to Jewish and
Christian tradition, is in Gaza and the West Bank. Christians in those
areas suffer the same plight as their co-religionists throughout the
region.

Since the Hamas takeover of Gaza in 2007, half the Christian community
has fled. Christmas decorations and public displays of crucifixes are
forbidden. In a December 2010 broadcast, Hamas officials exhorted
Muslims to slaughter their Christian neighbors. Rami Ayad, owner of
Gaza's only Christian bookstore, was murdered, his store reduced to
ash. This is the same Hamas with which the Palestinian Authority of
the West Bank recently signed a unity pact.

Little wonder, then, that the West Bank is also hemorrhaging
Christians. Once 15% of the population, they now make up less than 2%.
Some have attributed the flight to Israeli policies that allegedly
deny Christians economic opportunities, stunt demographic growth, and
impede access to the holy sites of Jerusalem. In fact, most West Bank
Christians live in cities such as Nablus, Jericho and Ramallah, which
are under Palestinian Authority control. All those cities have
experienced marked economic growth and sharp population increase-among
Muslims.

Israel, in spite of its need to safeguard its borders from terrorists,
allows holiday access to Jerusalem's churches to Christians from both
the West Bank and Gaza. In Jerusalem, the number of Arabs-among them
Christians-has tripled since the city's reunification by Israel in
1967.

There must be another reason, then, for the West Bank's Christian
exodus. The answer lies in Bethlehem. Under Israeli auspices, the
city's Christian population grew by 57%. But under the Palestinian
Authority since 1995, those numbers have plummeted. Palestinian gunmen
seized Christian homes-compelling Israel to build a protective barrier
between them and Jewish neighborhoods-and then occupied the Church of
the Nativity, looting it and using it as a latrine. Today, Christians
comprise a mere one-fifth of their holy city's population.

The extinction of the Middle East's Christian communities is an
injustice of historic magnitude. Yet Israel provides an example of how
this trend can not only be prevented but reversed. With the respect
and appreciation that they receive in the Jewish state, the Christians
of Muslim countries could not only survive but thrive.

Mr. Oren is Israel's ambassador to the United States.


VirtueOnline - News - Islamic Persecution - Israel and the Plight of Mideast Christians


الرد الثاني


A Muslim Finds the Catholic Faith … Through Geography and Theology
(2822)
British soccer team owner and prominent philanthropist Ilyas Khan
reflects on his conversion.
Share by EDWARD PENTIN 04/10/2012
Ilyas Khan
Swiss theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar was instrumental in helping
Ilyas Khan, a British philanthropist and former Muslim, to become
Catholic. But so too were many other distinctly Catholic influences,
all amounting to a “pull” towards the faith rather than a “push” away
from Islam.

Khan, a merchant banker by training and the owner of the Accrington
Stanley soccer team, is also chairman of the prominent British charity
Leonard Cheshire Disability — the largest organization in the world
helping people with disabilities. In a revealing interview with
Register Rome correspondent Edward Pentin, Khan explains in more
detail what drew him to the Catholic Church.



What brought you to the faith? Was there anything in Islam, perhaps
Muslims’ devotion to Our Lady, which helped you to convert?

Yes and no. Devotion to Our Lady on a personal basis is a big part of
my faith, but at the same time, I know it wasn’t anything to do with
my upbringing as a Muslim. My first tentative steps towards
Catholicism were taken in my very early infancy. My mother was very
ill at that time, and I was raised till about the age of 3 or 4 by a
grandmother who was determinedly Catholic and Irish. I went to a
Church school, and I think that when I started classes I didn’t think
of myself as anything other than being Christian.

I also benefited from being brought up in Lancashire, up on the
Pennines and close to the Ribble Valley. If there was ever a Catholic
heartland in England, that was it — the great stronghold that never
really acknowledged the Reformation.

Later on, when I was entering university, divine Providence intervened
for a second time, and I stayed at Netherhall House, which is an Opus
Dei student hall of residence in London. But, in between, say from the
ages of about 4 to 17, I had been raised as a Muslim in a Muslim
household. I had gone to mosque, learned the Quran. So, yes, I was
raised a Muslim, but I don’t think there was any aspect of Islam that
might have nudged me towards becoming a Catholic.



Was that time in Netherhall very influential, in terms of bringing you
into the faith?

Very much so, yes. However, at that point in time, I don’t think I had
the guts to convert or be received into the Church, or even take
formal instruction. Apostasy is something Islam takes very seriously.
In the eyes of a great many, Muslims’ apostasy is actually (as opposed
to merely theoretically) punishable by death. So Netherhall was
absolutely instrumental. I remember very clearly my devotion to prayer
was really formed there, surrounded as I was by living examples of a
wonderfully spiritual faith.



Would you say you came to the faith almost subconsciously?

Not really. I think I came to my faith wholly consciously. By the age
of 18 and 19, I was a reasoning and questioning young adult. And by
then I had discovered there was a brilliant person called Hans Urs von
Balthasar. There was a library in Netherhall where I started reading
theology. That’s where I came across Origen, and, to a very large
extent, that’s also where I was able to study and appreciate the work
of St. Augustine. So I was very conscious but somewhat apprehensive.
Both my parents were still alive at the time, and part of my reticence
was my unwillingness to cause them hurt. I don’t know quite how I
would have described myself by the time I graduated from university,
but probably “a closet Catholic” comes close.



What gave you the courage in the end?

Apart from the Holy Spirit? A culmination of two things: a greater
degree of certainty in my own moral compass; and if there was a push
away from Islam or a pull, it was much more the pull of Christ. It
wasn’t ever in my mind a negative thing [to convert]. The other
important factor was my very regular attendance, over a decade prior
to my formally being received, at a church — St. Joseph’s in Hong
Kong. I went to live in Asia and Hong Kong in my mid-20s, and that’s
where I discovered my affinity for traditional Catholicism. The simple
acts of faith — ritual, the liturgy and congregational prayer — were
the stepping stones.



Did you have a sense, in those years leading up to being received, of
a growing sense that the Catholic faith is the truth?

Yes, though that’s perhaps slightly melodramatic. At this stage of my
life, when my religion is at the core of what I do, it’s very
difficult to differentiate between any actions that might or might not
be motivated by faith. I would hope that everything I do in my life is
motivated and guided by faith. To answer your question in a slightly
different way: I never doubted, from about my mid-20s onwards, that I
was a Christian, and my path towards Catholicism, as opposed to
Christianity per se, was really quite a quick one. In retrospect, the
heart of that journey actually took four or five years and was more
academically or intellectually based. I have to say it was Von
Balthasar who guided me.



Were Blessed John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI also influential? Both
have been described as so-called Balthasarians.

That’s a really good question. I’ve never been asked that question
before. Yes, well, Cardinal Ratzinger, the current Pope, definitely
qualifies as being “Balthasarian,” and Blessed John Paul II raised
Balthasar to becoming a cardinal. Obviously, John Paul II was an
influence beyond his regard for Von Balthasar — how could one not be
influenced by such a great man? Like a great many people, Balthasar
himself was not just a gigantic intellect, but also articulated how
the mystery of faith is central to our lives as Christians. And, in
that regard, the single most moving moment for me happened when I was
in my mid-30s. I was walking past the Pieta in St. Peter’s, and I
remember being literally arrested in my tracks by a combination of
four or five things all at once. You asked me about my relationship
with the Blessed Mother of God — well, that moment in time was really
important. That can be described as being the turning point.



Was it the beauty of the Pietà that struck you?

Yes — and the context. This is God, I thought. This really is God. You
must remember that one of the big things when we look at traditional
Islam is the heresy — in their opinion — of equating the mortal Jesus
with God. And if there is ever an obstacle that a Muslim convert has
to contend with, intellectually and emotionally, more than anything
else, that is it. At that moment, in front of the Pietà, I realized,
through sheer emotion, that the truth of our religion is so simple and
so direct.



You mean the fact that Jesus is not just a prophet, but God Himself?

Yes, absolutely, and I think at that moment — I remember it
distinctly; it still moves me to tears — there was no doubt in my
mind. It was so clear. I’m afraid it would be impossible for me to
articulate that feeling in mere words. If there was a “before” and an
“after,” then that was my point of arrival, so to speak.



In terms of being concerned about the “apostasy” charge from Muslims —
is it something that keeps you up at night?

No, not at all. It doesn’t keep me up at night. However, I can tell
you where it becomes relevant: In various different forums — in
articles, magazines and on radio and once or twice on TV — I have
tended to get a fair degree of coverage in Britain, where I’m also
well known as the owner of one of our best-known football teams. I get
described with a standard tagline saying something like: “The most
prominent recent Catholic convert.” Whilst there have been many times
when I have been on the receiving end of threats from individual
Muslims or Islamic organizations who might read and react to these
articles and interviews, I have to say that those occasions have
absolutely never kept me up at night. I have received my fair share of
hate mail and threats of violence, but I conduct myself with what I
hope is a simple dignity and refuse to be drawn into a life governed
by fear or undue caution.

Conversely, what I am interested in is where Islam and Catholicism
meet; here, there is a degree of commonality. And my attitude is to
exhibit for those who are not Catholics the beauty, purity, wonder and
the privilege of being a Catholic. I’m just very straightforward and
calm about this issue, and that’s a reflection of my faith.



Some prominent converts from Islam can be very negative towards their
former religion, but you don’t seem to have that view.

My views have the benefit of being blessedly simple. I don’t think
there’s any complexity in my faith, and, as I said earlier, I was
pulled towards my Christian faith, not pushed away from Islam.

However, I must admit that I do have a great deal of sadness in my
heart when I contemplate people who use Islam to justify their
actions. These actions aren’t just un-Islamic — they are inhuman and
have nothing to do with my view of Islam as a religion. Sadly, there
appear to be a very large number of Muslims for whom anger and
violence seem intuitive first responses to anything they don’t agree
with. Beyond that, I feel that the two religions, Islam and
Christianity, might be described as “distant cousins.” Remember, I was
raised a Muslim, and I have been to Medina and Mecca, and I can see
some of the inherent qualities. But we must also admit that the point
of departure, the difference between the two religions, is vast. So
while there are similarities, and I can see them, they don’t count
really for very much. … I celebrate the fact that Jesus Christ is
love. It’s a simple statement. It is the defining difference.



And it is very simple in its totality.

Yes, it is; but then the thing we call “love,” that we as Christians
concern ourselves (with) at the heart of our faith, is a living, real
and tangible quality. Jesus is actually with us; we don’t need
metaphors or vague conceptual examples of what love “might” be in
order to inspire or inform us. We are blessed by the Holy Sacrament
and nourished by the direct intercession of Our Lord through his
sacrifice. In that regard, Von Balthasar has helped to change the
basis of conversation about the relationship between the Church,
Christ and the Holy Spirit. He created a new understanding around the
semantics of “love” in a religious context. I, therefore, can’t really
say much about the contrasts between Catholicism and other religions,
be they Islam or Hinduism, for example, but simply affirm the unerring
simplicity of my own faith.





Edward Pentin writes from Rome.



A Muslim Finds the Catholic Faith Through Geography and Theology | Daily News | NCRegister.com



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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-10-2012 الساعة : 10:13 PM

جديد
3 ردود من نفس الشخص بعد ارسال هذي الرساله في مجموعة قوقل ( Jesus Freaks )



الرد الاول
On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:14:34 -0700 (PDT), mov_nov <movnov5@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>When I was a child, growing up in the sixties and seventies just a few blocks away from the notorious Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco, I was surrounded by the hippie movement. It was a “turn on, tune in, drop out” age of sexual freedom, cultural revolution and social recklessness.

Please fix your line lengths -- they should not be more than 72 characters.

And please don't multipost. You should rather crosspost (but only if your post
is relevant to all the newsgroups you post it in)

>Happily, I was never caught up in the hippie movement, but being so close to it, I could not help but observe its development. One thing I clearly remember is how many hippies were labeled “Jesus freaks.” As I surf my childhood memories, nearly four decades later, this euphemism strikes me as having been decidedly peculiar. These hippies were considered “Jesus freaks” because they dressed as Jesus did, grew their hair as he did, renounced materialism as he did, and propagated devotion to God, peace, charity and communal love.

It wasn't a euphemism.

Not all hippies were Jesus freaks, though all hippies were called "freaks".
They were initially called "freaks" by members of "straight" society, but
quickly adopted the label and wore it with pride.

Some, but not all hippies were Christians, followers of Jesus, and they called
themselves "Jesus freaks" to distinguish themselves from other freaks who were
not followerrs of Jesus. Hippies experimented with and followed a variety of
religions; not only Christianity, but Hinduism, Buddhism and New Agre were
also common.

At that time there were lots of "underground" newspapers emanating from the
hippie movement, and one of the Christians ones was "Right On", produced by
the Christian World Liberation Front. The editor, Jack Sparks, later became an
Orthodox Archpriest.

There was also a movie about Jesus freaks, called "The Son Worshippers".

>Now, many whom embarked upon this path fell into hallucinogenic drug use and wanton sexual proclivities—practices which are far from the example of Jesus—but this is not why these hippies were called Jesus freaks. Rather, they were called Jesus freaks for their long hair, loose clothing, asceticism, communal unity and passivism, all a result of their effort to live like Jesus. The House of Love and Prayer, located nearby in the avenues, was a collecting point for many of these well-meaning souls, and the title of the institution reflected their focus in life.

Yes, some sought salvation in hallucinogenic drugs, and some in unrestrained
sex, but the ones that were Jesus freaks said they didn't need drugs to get
high, they got high on Jesus, and those weren't called Jesus freaks for their
long hair, but because they were followers of Jesus.

[ Islamic propaganda deleted. If you want to discuss the difference between
Christian and Islamic views of Jesus, then have a subject line like "Jesus in
Christianity and Islam" or something like that. It's not really a topic that
interests me, but Jesus freaks do interest me. Were there any Islamic freaks?
]
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: Khanya
Blog: Notes from underground

For information about why crossposting is (usually) good, and multiposting (nearly always) bad, see:
Play Nice on Usenet


الرد الثاني
On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:26:06 -0700 (PDT), "jwsheffield@satx.rr.com"
<jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote:

>Israel and the Plight of Mideast Christians
>Just as Jews were once expelled from Arab lands, Christians are now
>being forced from countries they have long inhabited

No doubt they were called "Jesus freaks" because of their long hair.
- إخفاء النص المقتبس -


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: Khanya
Blog: Notes from underground

For information about why crossposting is (usually) good, and multiposting (nearly always) bad, see:
Play Nice on Usenet



الرد الثالث

On Apr 10, 1:31 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:14:34 -0700 (PDT), mov_nov <movn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> For information about why crossposting is (usually) good, and multiposting (nearly always) bad, see:Play Nice on Usenet

I disagree. Multiposting brings spam, contention, and kills
newsgroups. Singularly posting to a newsgroup for which you think your
topic is relevant allows for truly relevant discussions. Here is from
the newly retired but still young Metropolitan of Antinoes, in your
Patriarchate, something relevant for today:

GREAT TUESDAY EVENING THE SINFUL WOMAN by Metropolitan Panteleimon

1. Hear and be comforted, beloved, how merciful is God. To the sinful
woman He forgave her offenses; yea, He upheld her when she was
afflicted. With clay He opened the eyes of the blind, so that the
eyeballs beheld the light. To the palsied He granted healing, who
arose and walked and carried his bed. And to us He has given the
pearls; His holy Body and Blood. He brought His medicines secretly;
and with them He heals openly. And He wandered round in the land of
Judea, like a physician, bearing his medicines. Simon invited Him to
the feast, to eat bread in his house. The sinful woman rejoiced when
she heard that He sat and was feasting in Simon's house; her thoughts
gathered together like the sea, and like the billows her love surged.
She beheld the Sea of Grace, how it had forced itself into one place;
and she resolved to go and drown all her wickedness in its billows.
2. She bound her heart, because it had offended, with chains and tears
of suffering; and she began weeping (with herself): What avails me
this fornication? What avails this lewdness? I have defiled the
innocent ones without shame; I have corrupted the orphan; and without
fear I have robbed the merchants of merchandise, and my rapacity was
not satisfied. I have been as a bow in war, and have slain the good
and the bad. I have been as a storm on the sea, and have sunk the
ships of many. Why did I not win me one man, who might have corrected
my lewdness? For one man is of God, but many are of Satan.
3. These things she inwardly said; then began she to do outwardly. She
washed and put away from her eyes the dye that blinded them that saw
it. And tears gushed forth from her eyes over that deadly eyepaint.
She drew off and cast from her hands the enticing bracelets of her
youth. She put off and cast away from her body the tunic of fine linen
of whoredom, and resolved to go and attire herself in the tunic the
garment of reconciliation. She drew off and cast from her feet the
adorned sandals of lewdness; and directed the steps of her going in
the path of the heavenly Eagle. She took up her gold in her palm and
held it up to the face of heaven, and began to cry secretly, to Him
who hears openly: This, O Lord, that I have gained from iniquity, with
it will I purchase to myself redemption. This which was gathered from
orphans, with it will I win the Lord of orphans.
4. These things she said secretly; then began to do openly. She took
up the gold in her palm, and carried the alabaster box in her hands.
Then hastily went she forth in sadness to the perfumer. The perfumer
saw her and wondered, and fell into questioning with her; and thus he
began to say to the harlot in the first words he spoke: Was it not
enough for you, harlot, that you have corrupted all our town? What
means this fashion that you show today to your lovers— that you have
put off your wantonness and hast clothed yourself in modesty?
Heretofore, when you came to me, your aspect was different from
today's. You were clothed in goodly raiment, and brought little gold;
and asked for precious ointment, to make your lewdness pleasant. But
lo! Today your vesture is mean, and you have brought much gold. Your
change I understand not; wherefore is this fashion of yours? Either
clothe you in raiment according to your ability, or buy ointment
according to your clothing. For this ointment becomes not or is suited
to this attire. Can it be that a merchant has met you, and brings
great wealth; and you have seen that he loves it not, the fashion of
your lewdness? So you have put off your lewdness and hast clothed
yourself in meekness, that by various fashions you may capture much
wealth. But if he loves this fashion because he is a chaste man in
truth, then woe to him! Into what has he fallen? Into a gulf that has
swallowed up his merchandise. But I give you advice, as a man that
desires your welfare, that you send away your many lovers who have
helped you nought from your youth, and henceforth seek out one husband
who may correct your lewdness.
5. These things spoke the perfumer, in wisdom, to the harlot. The
sinful woman answered and said to him, to the perfumer after his
discourse, Hinder me not, O man, and stop me not by your questioning.
I have asked of you ointment, not freely, but I will pay you its value
not grudgingly. Take you the gold, as much as you demand, and give me
the precious ointment; take you that which endures not and give me
that which endures; and I will go to Him who endures, and will buy
that which endures. And as to that you said, about a merchant; a Man
has met me today Who bears riches in abundance. He has robbed me and I
have robbed Him; He has robbed me of my transgressions and sins, and I
have robbed Him of His wealth. And as to that you said of a husband; I
have won me a Husband in heaven, Whose dominion stands for ever, and
His kingdom shall not be dissolved. She took up the ointment and went
forth.
6. In haste went she forth; as Satan saw her and was enraged; and was
greatly grieved in his mind. At one time he rejoiced, and again at
another he was grieved. That she carried the perfumed oil, he rejoiced
in his inward mind; but that she was clad in mean raiment— at this
doing of hers he was afraid. He clave then to her and followed her, as
a robber follows a merchant. He listened to the murmurs of her lips,
to hear the voice of her words. He closely watched her eyeballs (to
mark) whither the glance of her eyes was directed; and as he went he
moved by her feet (to mark) whither her goings were directed. Very
full of craft is Satan, from our words to learn our aim. Therefore our
Lord has taught us not to raise our voice when we pray, that the Devil
may not hear our words and draw near and become our adversary. So
then, when Satan saw that he could not change her mind, he clothed
himself in the fashion of a man, and drew to himself a crowd of
youths, like her lovers of former times; and then began he thus to
address her: By your life, O woman, tell me whither are your footsteps
directed? What means this haste? For you hastes more than other days.
What means this your meekness, for your soul is meek like a
handmaid's? Instead of garments of fine linen, lo! You are clothed in
sordid weeds; instead of bracelets of gold and silver, there are not
even rings on your fingers; instead of goodly sandals for your feet,
not even worn shoes are on your feet. Disclose to me all your doing,
for I understand not your change. Is it that some one of your lovers
has died, and you go to bury him? We will go with you to the funeral,
and with you will (take part with you) in sorrow.
7. The sinful woman answered and said to him, (even) to Satan, after
his speech: Well have you said that I go to inter the dead, one that
has died to me. The sin of my thoughts has died, and I go to bury it.
Satan answered and said to her, (even) to the sinful woman after her
words: Go to, O woman, I tell you that I am the first of your lovers.
I am not such as you, and I place my hands upon you. I will give you
again more gold than before.
8. The sinful woman answered and said to him, even to Satan after his
discourse: I am wearied of you, O man, and you are no more my lover. I
have won me a husband in heaven, Who is God, that is over all, and His
dominion stands for ever, and His kingdom shall not be dissolved. For
lo! In your presence I say; I say it again and I lie not. I was a
handmaid to Satan from my childhood unto this day. I was a bridge, and
he trode upon me, and I destroyed thousands of men. The eyepaint
blinded my eyes, and (I was) blind among many whom I blinded. I became
sightless and knew not that there is One Who gives light to the
sightless. Lo! I go to get light for my eyes, and by that light to
give light to many. I was fast bound, and knew not that there is One
Who overthrows idols. Lo! I go to have my idols destroyed, and so to
destroy the follies of many. I was wounded and knew not that there is
One Who binds up wounds; and lo! I go to have my wounds bound. These
things the harlot spoke to Satan in her wisdom; and he groaned and was
grieved and wept; and he cried aloud and thus he spoke:— I am
conquered by you, O woman, and what I shall do I know not.
9. As soon as Satan perceived that he could not change her mind, he
began to weep for himself and thus it was that he spoke: Henceforth is
my boasting perished, and the pride of all my days. How shall I lay
for her a snare, for her who is ascending on high? How shall I shoot
arrows at her, (even) at her whose wall is unshaken? Therefore I go
into Jesus' presence; lo! she is about to enter His presence; and I
shall say to Him thus: This woman is an harlot. Perchance He may
reject and not receive her. And I shall say to Him thus: This woman
who comes into Your presence is a woman that is an harlot. She has led
captive men by her whoredom; she is polluted from her youth. But You,
O Lord, are righteous; all men throng to see You. And if mankind see
You that You have speech with the harlot, they all will flee from Your
presence, and no man will salute You.
10. These things Satan spoke within himself, nor was he moved. Then he
changed the course of his thought, and thus it was that he spoke. How
shall I enter into Jesus' presence, for to Him the secret things are
manifest? He knows me, who I am, that no good office is my purpose. If
haply He rebuke me I am undone, and all my wiles will be wasted. I
will go to the house of Simon, for secret things are not manifest to
him. And into his heart I will put it; perchance on that hook he may
be caught. And thus will I say unto him: By your life, O Simon, tell
me; this man that sojourns in your house is he a man that is
righteous, or a friend of the doers of wickedness? I am a wealthy man,
and a man that has possessions, and I wish like you to invite him that
he may come in and bless my possessions.
11. Simon answered and thus he said to the Evil One after his words:
From the day that (first) I saw Him I have seen no lewdness in Him,
but rather quietness and peace, humility and seemliness. The sick He
heals without reward, the diseased He freely cures. He approaches and
stands by the grave, and calls, and the dead arise. Jairus called Him
to raise his daughter to life, trusting that He could raise her to
life. And as He went with him in the way, He gave healing to the woman
diseased, who laid hold of the hem of His garment and stole healing
from Him, and her pain which was hard and bitter at once departed from
her. He went forth to the desert and saw the hungry, how they were
fainting with famine. He made them sit down on the grass, and fed them
in His mercy. In the ship He slept as He willed, and the sea swelled
against the disciples. He arose and rebuked the billows, and there was
a great calm. The widow, the desolate one who was following her only
son, on the way to the grave He consoled her. He gave him to her and
gladdened her heart. To one man who was dumb and blind, by His voice
He brought healing. The lepers He cleansed by His word; to the limbs
of the palsied He restored strength. For the blind man, afflicted and
weary, He opened his eyes and he saw the light. And for two others who
besought Him, at once He opened their eyes. As for me, thus have I
heard the fame of the man from afar; and I called Him to bless my
possessions, and to bless all my flocks and herds.
12. Satan answered and said to him, to Simon after his words: Praise
not a man at his beginning, until you learn his end; hitherto this man
is sober and his soul takes not pleasure in wine. If he shall go forth
from your house, and holds not converse with an harlot, then he is a
righteous man and no friend of them that do wickedness. Such things
did Satan speak in his craftiness to Simon. Then he approached and
stood afar off, to see what should come to pass.
13. The sinful woman full of transgressions stood clinging by the
door. She clasped her arms in prayer, and thus she spoke beseeching:—
Blessed Son Who hast descended to earth for the sake of man's
redemption, close not Your door in my face; for You have called me and
lo! I come. I know that You have not rejected me; open for me the door
of Your mercy, that I may come in, O my Lord, and find refuge in You,
from the Evil One and his hosts! I was a sparrow, and the hawk pursued
me, and I have fled and taken refuge in Your nest. I was a heifer, and
the yoke galled me, and I will turn back my wanderings to You. Lay
upon me the shoulder of Your yoke that I may take it on me, and work
with Your oxen. Thus did the harlot speak at the door with much
weeping. The master of the house looked and saw her, and the colour of
his visage was changed; and he began thus to address her, (even) the
harlot, in the opening of his words:— Depart hence, O harlot, for this
man who abides in our house is a man that is righteous, and they that
are of his companions are blameless. Is it not enough for you, harlot,
that you have corrupted the whole town? You have corrupted the chaste
without shame; you have robbed the orphans, and have not blushed, and
have plundered the merchants' wares, and your countenance is not
abashed. From him your heart [and soul] labour [to take]. But from him
your net takes no spoil. For this man is righteous indeed, and they of
his company are blameless.
14. The sinful woman answered and said to him, even to Simon when he
had ceased: You surely are the guardian of the door, O you that know
things that are secret! I will propose the matter in the feast, and
you shall be free from blame. And if there be any that wills me to
come in, he will bid me and I will come in. Simon ran and closed the
door, and approached and stood afar off. And he tarried a long time
and proposed not the matter in the feast. But He, Who knows what is
secret, beckoned to Simon and said to him:— Come hither, Simon, I bid
you; does any one stand at the door? Whosoever he be, open to him that
he may come in; let him receive what he needs, and go. If he be hungry
and hunger for bread, lo! In your house is the table of life; and if
he be thirsty, and thirst for water, lo! The blessed fountain is in
your dwelling. And if he be sick and ask for healing, lo! The great
Physician is in your house. Allow sinners to look upon Me, for their
sakes have I abased Myself. I will not ascend to heaven, to the
dwelling whence I came down, until I bear back the sheep that has
wandered from its Father's house, and lift it up on My shoulders and
bear it aloft to heaven. Simon answered and thus he said to Jesus,
when He had done speaking:— My Lord, this woman that stands in the
doorway is a harlot: she is lewd and not free-born, polluted from her
childhood. And You, my Lord, are a righteous man, and all are eager to
see You; and if men see You having speech with the harlot, all men
will flee from beside You, and no man will salute You. Jesus answered,
and thus He said to Simon when he was done speaking:— Whosoever it be,
open for him to come in, and you shall be free from blame; and though
his offenses be many, without rebuke I bid you [receive him].
15. Simon approached and opened the door, and began thus to speak:—
Come, enter, fulfil that you will, to him who is even as you. The
sinful woman, full of transgressions, passed forward and stood by His
feet, and clasped her arms in prayer, and with these words she spoke:—
My eyes have become watercourses that cease not from [watering] the
fields, and today they wash the feet of Him Who follows after sinners.
This hair, abundant in locks from my childhood till this day, let it
not grieve You that it should wipe this holy body. The mouth that has
kissed the lewd, forbid it not to kiss the body that remits
transgressions and sins. These things the harlot spoke to Jesus, with
much weeping. And Simon stood afar off to see what He would do to her.
But He Who knows the things that are secret, beckoned to Simon and
said to him:— Lo! I will tell you, O Simon, what your meditation is,
concerning the harlot. Within your mind you imagine and within your
soul you said, ‘I have called this man righteous, but lo! The harlot
kisses Him. I have called Him to bless my possessions, and lo! The
harlot embraces Him.' O Simon, there were two debtors, whose creditor
was one only; one owed him five-hundred [pence], and the other owed
fifty. And when the creditor saw that neither of these two had
anything, the creditor pardoned and forgave them both their debt.
Which of them ought to render the greater thanks? He who was forgiven
five hundred, or he who was forgiven fifty? Simon answered, and thus
he said to Jesus, when He had done speaking:— He who was forgiven five
hundred ought to render the greater thanks. Jesus answered and thus He
said: You are he that owes five hundred, and this woman owes fifty.
Lo! I came into your house, O Simon; and water for My feet you brought
not; and this woman, of whom you said that she was an harlot, one from
her childhood defiled, has washed My feet with her tears, and with her
hair she has wiped them. Ought I to send her away, O Simon, without
receiving forgiveness? Verily, verily, I say unto you, I will write of
her in the Gospel. Go, O woman, your sins are forgiven you and all
your transgression is covered; henceforth and to the end of the world.
May our Lord account us worthy of hearing this word of His:— Come,
enter, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom made ready for
all who shall do My will, and observe all My commandments. To Him be
glory; on us be mercy; at all times. Amen! Amen!



رحمك الله يا سمية

رقم العضوية : 8411
الإنتساب : Jan 1970
المشاركات : 16,376
بمعدل : 0.93 يوميا

شمائل غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور شمائل


  مشاركة رقم : 112  
كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-11-2012 الساعة : 12:49 AM

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

هو مجرد كوبي كول دون ان يقرا ما يقول اصلا

الرد الاول :'يقول ان اليهود مضطهدون في شرق الاوسط، يبدو انه ياخذ دروس في التبشير ، المهم لنثبت ان المسيحيين هم ما ينادون بكراهية اليهود وان هتلر مسيحي وليس مسلم (ليته ابادهم عن بكرة ابيهم )النجسين وان الاسلام يعطى الامان اذا جنحوا للسلم'


There are many points to respond to. So let us begin with the Quranic passages he cites. For starters do the Quranic passages make generalizations against the Jews,

not the Quran. Whenever the Quran accuses the Jews of killing the prophets, or committing sins it is specifically referring to the evil and ignorant Jews, not ALL the Jews.
How do we know this? Well the Quran openly states that not all Jews are bad, and not all Jews are condemned to the hell-fire, as the Quran says:
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (5:69)

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right. (3:113-115)



Anyone who studies history, with no bias, will find out that the Muslims have treated the Jews far far far far far more better than the Christians ever did.

Who made the holocaust? Who made the crusades that killed as many Jews on their way to Jerusalem? Who made the crusades that killed every Jew they saw inJerusalem? Who made the terms kike, yid, yiddo, and hook nose? All of these anti-Jewish events in history have been perpetrated by CHRISTIANS and WESTERNERS.

Whetherany Christian will admit it, the fact is that the Christians (the people who say they love everyone, quite hilarious as they kill more people than anyone!) have more Jewish blood on their hands than any Muslim.

Secondly, if anyone is honest with themselves, conflict between the Muslims and the Jews has never been because one is a Jew, and the other is a Muslim. However so when Christians fought and killed Jews it was for no other reason than the Jews being Jews! Basically being a Jew was they're only crime that got them killed and oppressed by the Christians.

1 Thessalonians
Chapter 2


14-16:


For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Who are the prophets? Paul only mentions Jesus, who are the other prophets?! Notice Paul also says JEWS, and says THEM, he doesn't say SOME of the Jews, he just says Jews, and them. Using Katz' logic Paul was generalizing on the Jews for saying Jews, and them, just like when the Quran said Jews, and you!

Amazing isn't it? Look at the inconsistency, and hypocrisy of this Nazi missionary, this clown knows these verses are in his Bible, yet he makes such arguments against the Quran!

This shows you that this Nazi missionary has no care for the truth, but wants to create lies upon the Islamic faith, and the Muslim nation.

In fact it doesn't end there for this sad missionary, the Bible claims that the blood of Jesus is upon ALL JEWS! As we read:
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified. Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers. And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head. (Matthew 27:25-30)
And this isn't bigotry? And this doesn't bring hate against the Jews?! It is a FACT that this verse right here has been one of the main causes of Christian anti-Semitism and persecution against the Jews.
Katz will say that the words here are the words of the Jews themselves, it is not the opinion of the Bible itself, yet this shows how INCOMPETENT his Bible is. Why wouldn't Matthew clarify after writing this, that we must remember not all Jews were like this, and we shouldn't blame every Jew for Jesus' death because some Jews said his blood on our hands. Matthew, Mark, Luke, none of them make any clarification. Didn't they know that such a verse would cause major anti-semitism against the Jewish race? Weren't they under the Holy Spirit? Wasn't the Holy Spirit smart enough to clarify such a remark as to make sure it can't be used as an excuse to be used against the entire Jewish people? Obviously not, since Jews to this day suffer from this verse!
Jews for Judaism write this:
To answer these questions objectively one need only to read and compare the Gospel narratives of events surrounding the trial and execution of Jesus. These accounts show wide discrepancies, but it is the manner in which the blame for Jesus' death is shifted away from the local Roman authorities and placed upon all Jews, everywhere, that is most telling of the intent of the Gospel authors. Events, whether real or imaginary, are recorded in such a way as to condemn the Jewish people. A distinct effort is made to involve and accuse the entire Jewish people of being responsible for Jesus' death. Jews, especially their leader, are portrayed in the Gospels as constantly plotting the demise of the innocent Jesus, but the accusations do not stop there. The New Testament authors portray the Jews as innately evil and perverse. Yet, at the same time, not one Roman is held culpable for the execution or portrayed as evil. (http://jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq001.html)

So remember Katz claimed the Quran is trying to install hatred against the Jews, yet this verse I just quoted now, which is supposedly 2000 years old, to this very day in 2008, is causing problems for the Jewish people! Talk about stirring hate!
In fact if you take this verse to any Jew, they will tell you why are you being racist and anti-Semitic against me.
It gets worst though, in fact this time it gets funny. You see since Katz is so incompetent, by mistake he kept his notes within his article! He left a comment by Sam Shamoun by mistake, which says:


Talk about leaving a smoking gun as well, let us all go read Luke 11:47-51 and see who is the anti-Semitic one:
Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. (Luke 11:47-51)
Here we have Jesus again accusing the Jews and their fathers of killing the prophets, just like Katz asks, I ask him, WHO ARE THESE PROPHETS? Your Bible is making this repeated accusation now and no names are being given!

There is worst to come, Jesus actually calls the Jews the son of the Devil, and that their father is Satan himself! We read in John 8:37-44:
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
So Jesus claims they are of their father who is the devil, and then he characterizes them as murderers as well)

Let us all go to the book of Revelations now, specifically Revelations chapter 3 verse 9:

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Today's Jews who reject Jesus as the Messiah are the ones who are being referred to in this verse! Hence here we have a sweeping generalization on most Jews that they are liars, and actually belong to the synagogue of satan! I guess this is the Christian love.







رحمك الله يا سمية

رقم العضوية : 8411
الإنتساب : Jan 1970
المشاركات : 16,376
بمعدل : 0.93 يوميا

شمائل غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور شمائل


  مشاركة رقم : 113  
كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-11-2012 الساعة : 12:58 AM

الرد الثاني للمشاركة 89

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The following is a collection of enlightening, and inspiring stories of converts to Islam. We have amazing stories of how people found Islam and how their life changed for the better. Not only have Christians , catholic, Jews, Hindus, sheikhs pagans, Buddhists converted to Islam We have even Christian priest and catholic nuns who converting to Islam
Atheists and scientists who did not believe in God converted to Islam after reading or discovering the miracles of Islam.
Western Christian and Atheist women have realized the beauty of the Muslim women's dress ( Niqab, abaya , hijab) These western Christian women converts to Islam have left the mini shirt and bikini culture for the Niqab and the Abaya. Among them were those who had previously even won beauty completions and received offers for modeling agencies. Their beauty had given them popularity, fame, fast sports cars, expensive cloths and jewelry and penthouse's but slowly the ugly truth of that culture, its values, values customs and belief system started to appear to them and they realized there was more to life than this. When the started to search into different religions they came across Islam and found this is what they had always being looking for. The Truth.
So they converted to Islam and tears of joy filled their eyes They realized man made laws, customs, values and expectations, such as democracy, fashion, accumulation of wealth, enslaved them. They liberated themselves from the slavery of man and man made laws for the truth and the light of Islam.
The straight forward message of Islam. "None is worthy of worship except God" made sense. So they had finally found God and could now do as god wants them to do and not what others want them to do.






رحمك الله يا سمية

رقم العضوية : 8411
الإنتساب : Jan 1970
المشاركات : 16,376
بمعدل : 0.93 يوميا

شمائل غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور شمائل


  مشاركة رقم : 114  
كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-11-2012 الساعة : 01:06 AM

الرد الاول صفحة 90

مابعرف شو بخرف البني ادم من جنوب افريقيا ويبدو ان مستواه التعليمى متدني لذا كلامه غير واضح (على الاقل بالنسبة لي )

We present this information so that on the day of Resurrection, God will not accuse us of hiding the Truth. In such pursuit, we do not seek the pleasure, praise or approval of any person, but only the pleasure of God. The Noble Qur'an (in the verse which is translated as follows) states:“ Say (O Muslim): We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'cub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)” [Chapter 2: verse 136].

As Muslims, we believe in One Creator, We believe in all His Prophets, We believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) was one of the mightiest Prophets of God, that he was the Messiah as well as the Word of God, that he was born miraculously - without any male intervention (which many modern-day Christians today do not believe), that he gave life to the dead by God's permission, and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by God's permission. The Noble Qur'an highlights the important aspects of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) mother, his birth, his mission and his ascension to heaven



رحمك الله يا سمية

رقم العضوية : 8411
الإنتساب : Jan 1970
المشاركات : 16,376
بمعدل : 0.93 يوميا

شمائل غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور شمائل


  مشاركة رقم : 115  
كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-11-2012 الساعة : 01:11 AM

الرد الثاني صفحة 90 مكرر ومردود عليه اعلاه

الرد الثالث

ينقل خبر لا ادري ماعلاقته بما ارسلتى (يبدو انه شرب كثير من دم يسوعه)



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نـوفـ غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور نـوفـ


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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-12-2012 الساعة : 01:14 AM

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

جديد الردود


alt.religion.christian.episcopal

الاول

fOn Wed, 11 Apr 2012 00:21:52 -0700 (PDT), mov_nov <movnov5@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>We present this information so that on the day of Resurrection, God will not accuse us of hiding the Truth. In such pursuit, we do not seek the pleasure, praise or approval of any person, but only the pleasure of God. The Noble Qur'an (in the verse which is translated as follows) states:“ Say (O Muslim): We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'cub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)” [Chapter 2: verse 136].

You've said that three times now.

It doesn't seem to have much to do with Jesus freaks.


الرد الثاني



We left Islam
Who we are:

We are ex-Muslims. Some of us were born and raised in Islam and some
of us had converted to Islam at some moment in our lives. We were
taught never to question the truth of Islam and to believe in Allah
and his messenger with blind faith. We were told that Allah would
forgive all sins but the sin of disbelief (Quran 4:48 and 4:116). But
we committed the ultimate sin of thinking and questioned the belief
that was imposed on us and we came to realize that far from being a
religion of truth, Islam is a hoax, it is hallucination of a sick mind
and nothing but lies and deceits.

What we believe:

Some of us have embraced other religions but most of us have simply
left Islam without believing in any other religion. We believe in
humanity. We believe that humans do not need to follow a religion to
be good. All we need to follow is the Golden Rule. All we have to do
is to treat others the way we expect to be treated. This is the
essence of all the goodness. All good religious teachings stem from
this eternal principle. This is the ultimate guidance humanity need.
This is the Golden Rule.

Why Mohammed was not a prophet:

One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly
life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a sexual pervert,
and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass
murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must
have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people
of his time. Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He
raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire
male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the
women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his
followers that it is okay to have sex with their captives and their
“right hand possessions” (Quran 33:50) He assassinated those who
criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de
facto despot of Arabia. Muhammad was bereft of human compassion. He
was an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not
forgive those who stood in his way. Muhammad was a narcissist like
Hitler, Saddam or Stalin. He was astute and knew how to manipulate
people, but his emotional intelligence was less evolved than that of a
6-year-old child. He simply could not feel the pain of others. He
brutally massacred thousands of innocent people and pillaged their
wealth. His ambitions were big and as a narcissist he honestly
believed he is entitled to do as he pleased and commit all sorts of
crimes and his evil deeds are justified.

Why Quran is not from God:

Muhammad produced no miracles and when pressed he claimed that his
miracle is the Quran. Yet a cursory look at the Quran reveals that
this book is full of errors. Quran is replete with scientific
heresies, historic blunders, mathematical mistakes, logical
absurdities, grammatical errors and ethical fallacies. It is badly
compiled and it contradicts itself. There is nothing intelligent in
this book let alone miraculous. Muhammad challenged people to produce
a “Surah like it” or find an error therein, yet Muslims would kill
anyone who dares to criticize it. In such a climate of hypocrisy and
violence truth is the first casualty.

What is our goal?

We are apostates of Islam. We denounce Islam as a false doctrine of
hate and terror. However we are not against Muslims who are our own
kin and relatives. We do not advocate hate and violence. Muslims are
the main victims of Islam. Our goal is to educate them and let them
see the truth. We are against Islam and not the Muslims. We strive to
bring the Muslims into the fold of humanity. Eradicate Islam so our
people can be liberated, so they can prosper and break away from the
pillory of Islam. We would like to see Islamic countries dedicate more
time to science and less time to Quran and Sharia. We would like to
see them prosper and contribute to human civilization. We would like
to see the draconian laws of Islam eliminated and people are treated
humanely. We strive for freedom of beliefs, for equality of gender and
for oneness of humankind.

humankind’s biggest challenge:

Today the humanity is facing a great danger. Islamic fundamentalism is
on the rise and the hatred is brewing in the minds of millions of
Muslims. This hatred must be contained or there would be disastrous
consequences. We believe that the education is the only answer. Muslim
intellectuals must realize that Islam is a false doctrine and they
must let the rest of Islamic world know the truth. Islam is a religion
that thrives on the arrogant assumption that it is the most logical,
the most scientific and the most perfect religion. While the fact is
that it is the stupidest doctrine — the most backward and absurd
belief. Once the truth about Islam becomes common knowledge, it will
be weakened and the Islamic fanaticism will lose its fangs. Hundreds
of billions of dollars are being expended to combat Islamic terrorism,
yet no effort is made to contain the ideology behind this terrorism.
It is our belief that Islamic terrorism will not be eliminated unless
and until the ideology behind it is exposed and eradicated. This is
what we intend to do.

* * *

The Apostates of Islam


الرد الثالث

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:22:34 -0700 (PDT), "jwsheffield@satx.rr.com"
<jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote:

>We left Islam
>Who we are:

Jesus freaks?


الرد الرابع

About Jesus Freaks [Eng]

As Jesus Freaks we claim that in spite of crusades, burning of witches, boring
church services, TV preachers who rake in money, and all the pseudo- religious
affectation, there is something true and very wonderful behind the story about
Jesus!
To be honest we even believe that there isn´t anything better in this whole
world than to live with Jesus. Relationship with Him is the meaning of life!
The important thing is that neither religion, nor any kind of wisdom or rules
for life are what it's about, but a personal relationship with the creator of
this earth. Jesus lived on this earth as the son of God. He died on the cross
for our sins and rose from the dead, and is the only one who can close the gap
between God and us today. Jesus is the way to God.

We experience that the words of the bible have extraordinary power, and that
its statements about life and God are absolutely true. God introduces himself
to people, and shows His unique plan for mankind and very individual.
We believe that He turned particularly to the outcast and poor, to those who
do not fit the values of our society. As Jesus Freaks we want to live as Jesus
did; he is our example. Everybody can come as they are, no matter which social
backround they come from.

It is not our aim to entertain people or to improve their lot but to introduce
many to the ressurected Jesus.

Our vision is to see our generation stand up for Jesus in our country, in
Europe and all over the world, because living with Jesus is the most cool,
compelling, intense and exciting thing of all.

This Jesus movement will encourage people to build their own churches in their
own style and in their culture.
We like to see other churches who have Jesus at their center. We regard all
christians as a big family. Every church and every christian is special and
has a mission from God - and we want to carry out ours!

The past
When three of us met in 1991 in a living room in Hamburg there was one thing
that connected us:
We loved Jesus and we believed that He had not only died for us 2000 years ago
but had also risen from the dead. He therefore still lives today and has an
immediate interest in men.

We went for this Jesus and really wanted to see Him in action. Many of us
began to pray in someone's sitting room, without restraint, for the first
time. We were there before God just as we were, and wanted everything that He
had for us. Most of the people who joined us later on came because they
believed in Jesus, but hadn´t been accepted as they were in their lives. The
Jesus we find in the bible is extreme. He did not mince His words and he
criticised everything He didn´t like. We asked Him:
“Is it possible to be as we are and to live radically for You?
How could we design things like services, preaches and worship that works for
us?“
The first answer came relatively unexpectedly: we felt God´s presence blow us
over. Jesus was so real that we felt we could touch Him by simply stetching
out our hands. At this stage many miracles happened. Almost every prayer was
answered. Many suddenly stopped taking drugs because they were completely
filled with Jesus. He did everything to make it clear to us: “I like the idea,
it is from me, I want to bless you, I love you, just as you are!“
We tried out several things to find out how we could have services without
organs, lithurgy and traditional rites. In the Hamburg scene it got around
that these freaks who were crazy about Jesus were holding meetings, and so
people from different youth cultures came to us. Most of them realised that
there was something going on which they could not grasp and came again.

One meeting we held was called “Jesus- Abhäng- Abend“ (Hang out with Jesus),
and this grew enormously. Shortly after neighbours threatened to throw us out
of the flat if we (25 of us) went on praying the Lord´s Prayer at 1 in the
morning, we moved to a Café in the Schanzenviertel district. Until 1994 the
group grew to more than 200 people joining each “Abhäng- Abend“. In the
meantime the whole thing had become a kind of church, and we baptized and even
married some people. Many Freaks began a new life with Jesus in this place.

In the next years the whole thing grew to an extent that was beyond the
borders of Hamburg. All of a sudden we got mail from freaks all around Germany
who had the same idea but had never dared to make it happen. In a very short
period of time Jesus Freak groups sprang up like mushrooms. We decided that
although we came from and worked in different cities, we had to be close to
one another. We realised that we could only pull through our vision, a Jesus
movement in Europe, when we worked together. So, Jesus Freaks International
was founded as the official union of all churches and groups. Once a year
Freakstock takes place where we all meet and party together with Jesus. Since
the Jesus Freaks have existed many people have come to know the resurrected
Jesus. We ourselves went through ups and downs. To walk with Jesus as a
church, a group and a movement is not always easy and it involves changing
ones mind and continual development. But as long as we are willing to be
guided by the Holy Spirit, it will always continue and we will come to the
destiny that God has for us.


الرد الخامس

Title:
Jesus in Berkeley, Christian World Liberation Front
Creator:
Christian World Liberation Front
Subject:
Sparks, Jack N.
Spiritual Counterfeits Project
Christian World Liberation Front
Jesus People
Evangelicalism
Hippies -- Religious life
Description:
Besides the Free Church --considered a social gospel oriented ministry
supported by mainline churches-- there were other street ministries on
Telegraph Avenue. The Christian World Liberation Front (CWLF), founded in 1969
by Jack Sparks and others from the Campus Crusade for Christ, were among the
best organized. Disagreeing with the need for headquarters approval of any
published material, they became an independent entity. One of the points in
their platform was that Jesus "will create a soulful Christianity in
Berkeley." Their paper, "Right On" is one of the first Jesus People
underground newspapers and among the most respected. The CWLF actively sought
converts while providing crash pads, help for drug users and free food. They
provided street theater and encouraged radicals to convert. This flier was
distributed to over 10,000 students during one weekend in 1969. The CWLF
disbanded over questions of authority in 1975. One of the splinter groups
founded the Spiritual Counterfeits Project, a Christian anti-cult group. The
Jesus People Movement (Jesus Freaks) traces its origins across the Bay to the
Haight, where Ted and Liz Wise founded the "Living Room" in 1967.
Publisher:
Graduate Theological Union;
Contributor:
York, Richard L.;
Date:
1969

[/COLOR][/SIZE]



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الرد السادس

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 00:22:44 -0700 (PDT), mov_nov <movnov5@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>We present this information so that on the day of Resurrection,

And what does this have to do with Jesus freaks?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: Khanya
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk



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نـوفـ غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور نـوفـ


  مشاركة رقم : 118  
كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-13-2012 الساعة : 02:03 PM

Where is the “Christ” in “Christianity?” بعد ارسال هذه الرساله
الرد الاول

Jihadwath

Turkey: Muslim mobs attacking Christian clerics
More indication of the ongoing re-Islamization of Turkey. "Christian
clerics alarmed at growing threats, persecution in Turkey," from
Hürriyet Daily News, April 10 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):

Christian clerics in Turkey have expressed their anxiety regarding the
growing threats they face in wake of an attack against Pastor Semih
Serkek of the Protestant “Lütuf” (“Grace”) Church in Istanbul’s
Bahçelievler district on April 7.
“Attacks against Christian clerics drop off for a while, then they
begin to re-energize. [Such attacks] have begun to accelerate again in
recent days. We hesitate when opening our doors and welcoming the
faithful inside,” Pastor Krikor Ağabaloğlu of the Gedikpaşa Armenian
Protestant Church in Istanbul told the Hürriyet Daily News.

Attack on Easter

Three unidentified individuals attacked and beat Serkek on the night
of April 7, immediately after an Easter service. “They were three
people around the age of 18. They wore [prayer caps] on their heads.
They forced the door open and said they were going to kill me unless I
recited the ‘Kelime-i Şahadet’ [Islamic confession of faith]. I
received a severe blow to my chest,” Serkek told the Daily News. The
attacks were not coincidental, according to Serkek, who had also
served as a mentor to the three victims slain in the Malatya Zirve
Publishing House incident in eastern Turkey.

Pastor Orhan Picaklar of the Agape Protestant Church in the Black Sea
province of Samsun also said he has been living with a personal escort
24 hours a day for the past four years, since a plot to assassinate
him first came to light. “Police [officers] keep watch at the door
during mass; the believers are afraid to enter the church due to the
threat to their lives,” he said. The make-shift church, located inside
an apartment building, also came under attack about a month ago,
Picaklar said, adding that the congregation was chagrined at being
stuck in an apartment. “[The authorities] gave the green light to the
construction of a new church in 2004, within the framework of the
European Union harmonization laws, although with the pre-condition
that it must be no smaller than 2,500 square meters. We have no
budget. We appealed to establish a church building 1,000 square meters
in size, but did not receive approval for it.”

Ağabaloğlu said that in the case of his church, the state
intentionally refused to grant permission for the construction of a
church building. “They are trying to stymie the spread of Christianity
in this way.”


Islamic law forbids Christians to build new churches.

Turkey: Muslim mobs attacking Christian clerics - Jihad Watch


Jihad Watch


الرد الثاني


Lu 16:31 -And he said unto him,
If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded,
though one rose from the dead.

Who Moved The Stone? [Paperback]
Frank Morison (Author)


For Seekers & Skeptics, July 27, 1999
By StLuke...@aol.com (Dublin, Oh) - This review is from: Who Moved
the
Stone? (Paperback)
I've read many books on the historical reliability (and
unreliability)
of the New Testament; I've seen many educated opinions varying in
every way; I done studies many resurrections-centered topics; but
I've
never seen a book quite like this! Morrison takes nothing for
granted.
He trusts his instincts, and, though coming shy of any kind of
Biblical-Christian opinion, he beautifully defends the resurrection
in
this short examination. As a doubter I find it difficult to swallow
what many Christians take for granted in their own faith. This book
is
not like most. However, as a believer I was thrown by Morrison into
the last week of Jesus' life (and the following weeks) as I never
have
by any lecture or writing. Morrison brings to light many historical
details missed my so many people (including myself). He is easy to
read and difficult to put down.
To the skeptics: I was once a skeptic. It was not a brief reading of
one or two apologetic works that convinced me; instead, it was months
and months of hard research, with this book as one of the many
highlights. I encourage all to read this.


Morrison's book will forever remain one of my personal favorites.


Luke Gilkerson


Amazon.com: Who Moved The Stone? (9781850786740): Frank Morison: Books


The Case for the Resurrection:
A First-Century Investigative Reporter
Probes History's Pivotal Event [Paperback]
Lee Strobel (Author)


A Mighty Case for the Risen Christ, August 10, 2010
By Mike Robinson "Mike A Robinson: Apologetic An... (USA) -(TOP 1000
REVIEWER) (REAL NAME) This review is from: The Case for the
Resurrection: A First-Century Investigative Reporter Probes History's
Pivotal Event (Paperback)
Lee Strobel's "The Case for the Resurrection: A First-Century
Investigative Reporter Probes History's Pivotal Event," is a power-
packed booklet (almost 100 pages) that offers compelling evidence for
the resurrection of Jesus Christ. "The Case for the Resurrection" is
helpful and readable and makes a great evidential introduction for
this essential truth of Christianity.


This New book features:
Fresh insights from Lee Strobel's new "The Case for Christ Study
Bible," as the author covers the story of Christ rising from the
grave
from the Gospel of Luke with outstanding notes from "The Case for
Christ Study Bible." The proof is potent, the writing is engaging,
and
the author has a true passion for the subject.


Remember that the Apostles saw the risen Christ, touched the risen
Christ, and died tortuous deaths proclaiming its truth when all thy
had to do was deny it; yes many people die for lies, but no
collective, diverse group of people die for what they Know is a
complete lie.


Furthermore all known ancient documents that refer to the subject
report an empty tomb. Even though the manner in which one accepts or
rejects the evidence on the historicity of the ancient documents and
other papyrus is controlled by one's presuppositions, the facts are
mighty; the evidence is there, and is impressive, but there is an
important distinction between proof and persuasion.


Note the evidence for the resurrection of Christ is:
- 100's of eyewitnesses testified under the threat of death that they
saw the risen Jesus including 500 people at one time. All the
apostles, except one, died a horrible death knowing they saw Jesus
alive from the dead. 100's more died because they would not recant
the
fact that they saw the risen Jesus. Not one Apostle recanted to save
himself from a torturous death.


- Only Christianity offers over three hundred predictions written
down
before Christ came and fulfilled exactly, most of which could not
have
been self-fulfilled.
Only Christ offers a confirmed resurrection of a Savior to
demonstrate
His authority. (Greek & other pseudo-resurrection gods were not
historical figures, the only documents we have concerning the false
gods/myths are documents dated 100's of years after Christianity.


- The resurrection was proclaimed in Jerusalem where the trial,
crucifixion. and resurrection took place. If Jesus had not risen from
the dead, his enemies only had to produce this body and this new
religion that they hated would be terminated before it started.


- The conversion of Jesus' opponents to Christianity, including many
Jewish Priests and Pharisees can best be explained by the
resurrection
of Christ. The risen Jesus converted many of those who executed Him
because of the overwhelming evidence of His resurrection and His many
appearances through God's grace (Acts 6:7 & Acts 15:5).


- Jesus' tomb was secured and guarded by well trained Jewish and
Roman
guards. The tomb had a Roman seal on it to prevent tampering with the
threat of execution for breaking the seal, yet the tomb was empty.
Every ancient historical source that discusses the subject verifies
the tomb was empty.


- Ancient hostile sources and extra-Biblical writers record the same
facts of Christ's death and empty tomb. Additionally, the continuous
defense of the resurrection in front of Roman government officials
from Paul to Tertullian was unchallenged by Rome and all ancient
historians.


Amazon.com: The Case for the Resurrection: A First-Century Investigative Reporter Probes Historys Pivotal Event (9780310949893): Lee Strobel: Books...


الرد الثالث


Le 12/04/2012 23:37, mov_nov a écrit :

> Unreliability is a recurring problem in the Old Testament, the most
> prominent example being the confusion between God and Satan! II
> Samuel 24:1 reads:
>
> “Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved
> David against them to say, ‘Go, number Israel and Judah.’”
>
> However, I Chronicles 21:1 states: “Now Satan stood up against
> Israel, and moved David to number Israel.”
>
> Uhhh, which was it? The Lord, or Satan?

Usually in the OT Satan tempts a saint (or tries to tempt God Himself by
inflicting severe trials to a saint or to Israel) and then God answers:
"Do it fag...uh, Satan: I fully trust the faith my servant."

--
« Dieu n'est-il pas le poète suprême en tant qu'il improvise les mondes ? »
Vladimir Jankélévitch


Rأ©gis V. Gronoff
Profil de RVG95 - Jamendo
Calling for the Blue Dusk


الرد الرابع

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:37:50 -0700 (PDT), mov_nov <movnov5@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
>
> Lehmann contributes:
>
(Translated
> by Rev. H. J. Chaytor). London and New York: Harper and Brothers. p.
> 130.

I was going to reply to this, but then I see you are simply pasting in the
notes of an unknowledgeable man. This started off with verse addresses
included which was good, since when you read the scripture you can see the
errors, and sometimes rather obvious errors.

There is but a short time left with the current Covenant of God to mankind.
Wisdom would suggest seeking the truth and not looking to believe lies lest
you be trapped in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone for eternity.

Oh and fix your reader, it is not truncating lines.


--
Peter
A Disciple of The Lord Jesus Christ
Joh 13:34-35 KJV
Join up now.



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نـوفـ غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور نـوفـ


  مشاركة رقم : 119  
كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-13-2012 الساعة : 05:52 PM

الرد الخامس

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:35:47 -0700 (PDT), mov_nov <movnov5@gmail.com> wrote:

I suggest you learn what word-wrap means.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****



رحمك الله يا سمية

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شمائل غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور شمائل


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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-14-2012 الساعة : 09:00 PM

الرد الثالث


The following is a collection of enlightening, and inspiring stories of converts to Islam. We have amazing stories of how people found Islam and how their life changed for the better. Not only have Christians , catholic, Jews, Hindus, sheikhs pagans, Buddhists converted to Islam We have even Christian priest and catholic nuns who converting to Islam

Atheists and scientists who did not believe in God converted to Islam after reading or discovering the miracles of Islam.

Western Christian and Atheist women have realized the beauty of the Muslim women's dress ( Niqab, abaya , hijab) These western Christian women converts to Islam have left the mini shirt and bikini culture for the Niqab and the Abaya. Among them were those who had previously even won beauty completions and received offers for modeling agencies. Their beauty had given them popularity, fame, fast sports cars, expensive cloths and jewelry and penthouse's but slowly the ugly truth of that culture, its values, values customs and belief system started to appear to them and they realized there was more to life than this. When the started to search into different religions they came across Islam and found this is what they had always being looking for. The Truth.

So they converted to Islam and tears of joy filled their eyes They realized man made laws, customs, values and expectations, such as democracy, fashion, accumulation of wealth, enslaved them. They liberated themselves from the slavery of man and man made laws for the truth and the light of Islam.

The straight forward message of Islam. "None is worthy of worship except God" made sense. So they had finally found God and could now do as god wants them to do and not what others want them to do.

how to convert to Islam


الرد الرابع:

لماذااليسوع ليس الاهي

Bismillahi r-Rahmani r-Rahim Assalamu aleikum I am going to talk about the truth about Jesus (peace be upon him!).

In the first part of the lecture I would like to consider some of the so-called Christian evidence for the Divinity of Jesus and with the short response to what I consider the best evidence that the Christians would have and then to conclude with what Islam has to say about Jesus, insha Allah.

So first let us consider some of the best Christian so-called evidence for the Divinity of Jesus.

Of course one body of evidence that Christians have historically pointed to was evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him!) is God are the miracles of Jesus.

For example, they like to point to the virgin birth of Jesus. But it is the fact that Jesus had the human mother, but no father.

But of course for centuries the Jews and more recently the Muslims have counted that evidence by reminding the Christians that Adam had neither the mother of the father, and yet of course Christians never claim that Adam is Divine.

The physical state of affairs of a virgin birth as miraculous as it is not proof of Divinity.


For example, we read in the New Testatment that Hebrews (chapter 7, verse 3). It says that "without father, mother or ancestry, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains the priest for ever".

It�s a very interesting verse, because that verse is not describing Jesus (peace be upon him!), rather if taken literally, as Christians take other verses in the Bible, it says that Melchizedek - an Old Testament figure - was without a father, without a mother, and that he is eternal.

So, using Christian logic, wouldn�t Melchizedek be God? And yet, no Christian says that Melchizedek is God. More often Christians would suggest, that since Jesus (peace be upon him!) had the power to cure the sick or even to raise the dead - that he must be God, because only God has power over life and death.

But the Bible itself demonstrates that claim is not logically founded.

For example, in the New Testament in the book of Acts (chapter 5, verse 15) we discover that families would bring their sick out into the street, so that the shadow of St.Peter could cast upon the sick people, and it says when the shadow of St.Peter was cast upon them - that they were cured.

Supposedly the mere shadow of Peter had the power to cure the sick.

In Acts (chapter 14, verse 10), Paul says to a crippled man: "Stand up upon your feet. And the man was cured".

And Paul did not mention the name of Jesus (peace be upon him!) in order to cure the man.

In Acts (chapter 9, verse 40) St. Peter raises Tabitha from the dead. And he did not mention the name of Jesus in order to raise Tabitha from the dead.

Of course Christians claim and they should claim if they are good Christians, that the apostles receive power for these miracles from Jesus.

But it is not understandable why they stop there, why do they not say that Jesus (peace be upon him!) receives his power from God.

For example, when we read John (chapter 5, verse 30 and chapter 6, verse 38). It says that Jesus was supposed to have said: "I can do nothing on my own initiative.

As I hear, I judge. And my judgement is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me".

So if Jesus, (peace be upon him!) cures it is because it is the will of the One who sent him. Because Jesus by his own admission can do nothing on his own initiative.

Clearly the will of Jesus (peace be upon him!) is subordinated to the will of God, which is inconsistent with any claim that Jesus is equal to the Father.

St.Paul himself subordinated Christ to God the Father in authority.

In his letter to the Corinthians I (chapter 11, verse 3) Paul says that Christ is the head of every man and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Another typical verse of Paul is Corinthians I (chapter 15, verse 25). It says: "And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son himself will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him. That God may be all in all".

We also learn in the letter to Phillipians (chapter 2, verse 9) that God has highly exalted Jesus.

So if Jesus is subject to God and relies upon God to exalt him, then Jesus cannot be God, unless there are levels of being God.

At most Jesus could be aimed lower God and not equal to the Father.

But elsewhere in the Bible Jesus himself blatantly denies any kind of equality with God. For example, in the Gospel of John (chapter 14, verse 28) he says, "I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am".

In what sense can the Father be greater than Jesus ?

Christians view Jesus as perfect. Their line of argumentation is very simple. Since only God is perfect and Jesus is perfect, then Jesus must be God.
In logic we dismiss that kind of an argument, we say it is the fallacy of the undistributed middle term.

Let me give you an example of that, to show you how illogical it is. If I said that Begin is tired and Reigan is tired then I would have to conclude that Begin is Reigan.

So obviously it is an illogical kind of argument. It is the same kind of argument that we find there. You don�t even have to be a Major in logic to see that that is illogical.

If you look to the Bible itself in the famous sermon on the mount in Matthew (chapter 5, verse 48), Jesus supposedly commands us to "be ye therefore perfect, as your Father who is in Heaven is perfect".

Again Jesus of course was paraphrasing the Torah. We find those words in Leviticus (chapter 19, verse 2).

But by commanding us to be perfect, or holy as it is said in Leviticus, to Jesus and God it means to indicate that we all have the potential to be God.

Well of course no orthodox Christian would make such a claim. The fact is that if Jesus lived a perfect life, then he was a perfect man, but a perfect man is not God.

Jesus was simply following the commandment revealed by God to Moses.

But whatever Jesus�s perfection in the New Testament is, he is always characterised or described as lower or subordinate to God the Father. And that subordinate role is seen in the fact that Jesus himself viewed himself as a messenger.

In Matthew (chapter 10, verse 40), and in John (chapter 5, verse 36) Jesus says, "...he who receives you, receives me and he who receives me, receives Him who sent me". That�s a very important verse, when it is considered along with verse such as John (chapter 12, verse 44). That says, "But Jesus cried out and said "he who believes in me, does no believe in me, but in Him who sent me"

. Also in John (chapter 13, verse 16) it says, "A slave is not greater than his master, neither a messenger - greater than the One who sent the messenger".

So Jesus is admitting both that he is a messenger and that the messenger is not as great as the One who send a messenger. It is very very clear.

Consistently the Gospel writers viewed Jesus as a human messenger, one mediator between God and man. That is evident in I Timothy (chapter 2, verse 5). Where Paul writes, "For there is one God, and also one mediator between God and men - a man Christ Jesus".

That whole doctrine was of course taken from file of Alexander. I don�t have time to go into that but if you have questions about it later I can go into it. So, I think we can see that if in some biblical verses Jesus is described as perfect, we can see from other verses that his perfection is only a human perfection. The Bible itself does not attribute perfect knowledge to Jesus.

Jesus freely admitted that there were things that neither he nor the Angels knew, but that only God knew.

For example, talking about the day of judgement, Jesus says in the Gospel of Mark (chapter 13, verse 32). He says that "of that day or hour no one knows, neither the Angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but the Father".

And there is a very curious verse in Luke (chapter 2, verse 52), that makes the following statement about Jesus.

It said and Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and in physical growth and in favour with God and men. If Jesus is God, then we would expect him to share in the omniscience and the all-knowingness of God and the All-knowing God cannot increase in wisdom.

Or returning to the issue of perfection. If Jesus is perfect, and how could he increase in favour with God. A very dangerous thing happened in Christian theology, when the theologians attempted to attribute Divinity to Jesus.

Paradoxically, human qualities were attributed to God.

That is seen very clearly in a passage from Ditrich Barnhafer "Letters and papers from prison". Let me read it: "God is teaching us that we must live as men who can get along very well without him.

That we should be able to get along without God. The God who is with us is the God who forsakes us, the God who makes us live in this world. Without using him as a working hypothesis is the God before whom we are ever standing, before God and with Him we live without God.

God allows himself to be edged out of the world and onto the cross. God is weak and powerless in the world. And that is exactly the way, the only way in which he can be with us and help us".

Barharfer describes God as weak and powerless in the world, that he can be edged out of the world and nailed onto a cross. What a short step it is from describing God as weak and powerless in the world to some other words that are even worse

. Neichure wrote: "Where has God gone - he cried. I shall tell you. We have killed Him. You and I. We are all His murderers. God is dead. God remains dead and we have killed Him."

If Christians call Barnhafer and Neitsche silly then they should remember that for two centuries after the council of Carsidn, their Fathers and faith debated about whether God could suffer

. These debates and paradoxes continue only substantiating the old claim that anything can follow from a contradiction.

Once you say that God can become man, then anything can happen. Then God can be even called weak and powerless or God can even die, if God can become a man.

Many Christians claimed that the greatest single piece of evidence that Jesus is God is the empty tomb. The Resurrection of Jesus. In fact Paul says that if Jesus did not raise from the dead, the Christian faith is worthless.

That it is completely empty. But unfortunately for the Christian the only evidence for the Resurrection is found in the Bible; and those Resurrection stories, those Resurrection narratives are extremely inconsistent on the details of the event.

For example, try to use the biblical narratives to determine which of Jesus�s followers actually came to the tomb and found that the tomb is empty. In Matthew (chapter 28, verse 1) we learn that Mary Magdalene and another woman named Mary came to the tomb.

Whereas in Mark (chapter 16, verse 1) it says that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Salome were present.

Whereas in Luke (24:10) it says that Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of Jesus and other women were present.

Finally in John (chapter 20, verse 1) - it suggests that Mary Magdalene was all alone at the tomb.

There is no consensus on who actually saw Jesus in the empty tomb, or who actually saw the empty tomb. And of course although Christians refer to the empty tomb they do not actually mean that the tomb is completely empty when the individuals went there. According to Christians there was an angelic presence at the tomb

However the Gospels of Mark and Luke differ on how many angels were actually present at the tomb.

Mark (16:5) has one young male angel in the tomb. Luke (24:4) has two male angels in the tomb.

Another question that fundamentalist Christians, that evangelical type often pose is who moved the stone (as if this is a terribly important question).

I must confess that even as a Christian I couldn�t envision a more irrelevant question.

First, what difference does it make who moved the stone. Just give him a name - Bernish Warts.

What difference does it make?
What does it prove?

The issue was not who moved the stone, but whether the Bible is free from inconsistencies, such that it is even possible to determine the answer to that question.

In fact, the Bible equivocates on who moved the stone. In Matthew (28:2) one reads that when Mary Magdalene and Mary arrived at the tomb, an angel approached, rolled the stone away and then sat upon the stone.

In Mark (16:4) and in Luke (24:2) one discovers that when the women arrived at the tomb, the stone was already moved. Another very interesting question is where was Jesus before the empty tomb was being visited. Supposedly at some point to be for Easter, Jesus ascended into Heaven, because in Luke (23:43) he promises the thief on the cross that the thief would be with Jesus that day in Paradise. That Day would be - on Good Friday.

However in John chapter (20, verse 17), Jesus tells Mary Magdalene on Easter Sunday not to touch him, because He has not yet ascended to the Father.

According to these verses Jesus would either be unfortunately (I would not say this, but according to the verse Jesus was either lying to the thief or to Mary Magdalene! Astagfir Allah!)

Because he promised to see that thief in Heaven on Friday, but on Sunday He had not yet ascended to the Father, he had not yet gone to Heaven.
It is curious that according to the Bible Jesus changed His mind about being touched before his ascension because in Matthew (28:9) it says that both of the Maries grabbed Jesus�s feet before He ascended to the Father.

الرد الخامس

What the Bible says about Jesus





The aim of this article will be to show that Jesus according to the Bible, is not God, but instead he is a prophet, the messiah sent to the Jews. I will be dividing this article up into 6 sections as follows:



I- The sent one

II- The mission of the sent one

III- The miracles and great works performed by the sent one

IV- The denial of being God by the sent one

V- Conclusion





THE SENT ONE



Who is Jesus? That is one of the most debated topics that has ever taken place. Many say Jesus is God, many others say Jesus is not God but just a prophet, many others say that Jesus is a son of God but not God. Others just don't believe a Jesus ever existed, and some others believe that Jesus was just a blasphemer.



Well since this main article is directed at Christians, I will be going into the Bible, namely the NT to see what it has to say about Jesus, I will be quoting from the Bible and we will see for ourselves to what the Bible really does say about Jesus. We first start of by the beginning of Jesus, starting from his virgin birth, being sent into this world.



All prophets have been sent by God into this world to spread the message and bring people to God. Jesus is no exception to this, he himself was also sent by God just like every other prophet was:



Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



Here we see Jesus claiming he was SENT to the lost sheep of Israel. Just like every other prophet, prophets were sent to a group of specific people, or their own tribe etc. We find Jesus in the same situation as he also was sent to a specific group of people, the lost sheep of Israel. The one who sent Jesus is of course God, so here is just one verse showing us that Jesus just like all other prophets was sent, and just like all other prophets he was sent to a specific people. Let us quote more verses of Jesus being sent:



Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!



Now this verse does not mention Jesus being sent, however so it mentions other prophets who were sent to Jerusalem for the Jews. What is interesting about this passage is that Jesus mentions the prophets. He mentions prophets who were sent, and mentions prophets who were sent for a specific group of people. What is interesting is that Jesus himself is in the exact similar position, he was sent, and he was sent to a specific group of people hence we see the exact similarity between Jesus and the other prophets. Not only that, but the Jews stoned the other prophets, the Jews also tried to stone Jesus. Hence from this we already have enough proof that Jesus is a prophet, and just like all other prophets Jesus is sent, and sent to a specific group of people. However let us quote more verses of Jesus being sent to make a strong foundation for the rest:



Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.



Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life



Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.



Jhn 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.



Jhn 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.



So it is crystal clear that Jesus was sent, he did not send himself. So just like all other prophets Jesus is sent, and he is sent to a specific group of people.

So this in itself is enough to show that Jesus is indeed a prophet, for prophets are sent by God to do a job just like Jesus said. If Jesus indeed was God he would have sent himself, not let someone send him.



A Christian does not have one single valid argument against that, the fact is before Jesus came into this world he was fully divine as Christians say. So it would be simple for the divine Jesus to send himself into this world since he had the power and so on, Christians cannot jump to the out-dated argument of Jesus was a man, he gave up his powers and so on. The fact is Jesus was fully divine before he came down to earth, so why did the divine Jesus not send himself? Why did he need the Father to send him? The fact is because Jesus is just a man, and cannot send himself because he is not God. Jesus was sent because he is a prophet, and just like all prophets he was sent by God.



Now let us look at some other interesting verses concerning sent people:



Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].



That is the exact position of Jesus. The one whom God has sent speaks the words of God. The fact is that this verse makes it even more solid to the fact that Jesus was just a messenger, speaking the words of God. I would love to see a Christian response to that which actually makes sense. It is simple logic, if someone is God, then they cannot be referred to like that, being sent and speaking the words of God. Now in case Christians want to say Jesus is God so therefore he is indeed speaking the words of God, so since he is God so there is no problem. However so Jesus himself said everything he speaks is not his. So the fact is everything Jesus said, taught and so on were not his own words as he himself stated:



Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.



.Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.



Jhn 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.



Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.



So these verses make it crystal clear that everything he said, everything he spoke was not of his own but of the ONE WHO SENT HIM, which is the Father. Hence Jesus did not even say things of his own! This is further proof that he is indeed a prophet, every prophet speaks what God tells them to speak, Jesus is no exception to this rule. Hence we see the sent ones speak the words of God, Jesus is the sent one, and he speaks the words of God, he does not speak of his own words as we clearly see in those verses. Therefore Jesus is definitely not God. Let us make a summary of what we have so far:



1- All prophets are sent by God, Jesus was sent by God



2- All prophets(except Muhammad) were sent to a specific group of people, Jesus is no exception to this, he to was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.



3- Every prophet spoke the words of God, they did not speak from themselves but rather what God told them to speak, Jesus once again is no exception to this and he himself claimed that all his words and all of what he said is from God. The Bible itself also claims all sent ones by God speak the words of God, Jesus was sent by God and spoke the words of God. Therefore he is not God.



So all this from the NT shows that Jesus cannot be God. Jesus follows a long line of prophets who were all sent by God, if Jesus was some what different he would then arrive on this planet in a somewhat different way, which is to be sent of himself, not being like all other prophets. Jesus' unique birth is a bit different, but not in the sense to put him on a different level which is making him God. Isaac was born of a barren lady. Adam was born of no mother or father. There are several unique births indeed, but the main thing is that it is God who is essentially sending them and sending them in different ways, but at the end of the day they are being sent by God and all share that common denominator. So this in itself is enough to prove Jesus is not God.



THE MISSION OF THE SENT ONE



Now every prophet has a mission. They have a task to do, which is to bring people to God and spread the message. It has already been proven that Jesus is a prophet, so therefore since Jesus is a prophet we must look at each and every single prophet and see what their mission was. Now it will take too long to show each and every prophet, and show what their mission was.



However so everyone knows that the mission of ALL prophets is to say and claim that ' HEAR O ISRAEL, OUR LORD GOD IS ONE GOD'. That is the basic message of each prophet, and to also bring the people back to moral ways, as you can read in Jeremiah and Isaiah how both of them were sent to a nation who were totally backwards and so on.



So the missions of prophets are always consistent and the same. Since Jesus is a prophet this should also apply to him. Of course Christians will say Jesus' mission was to come and die for us, rise on the third day and so on. However does the NT support this? Let us once again quote Jesus from the NT to show what he really wanted people to do, and what his mission was:



Jhn 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.



Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ( This without a doubt is the shahada! I bear witness that there is only one God and that Jesus is his messenger, this is the shahada of the time back then.)



Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



Jhn 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.



Jhn 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.



Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.



Jhn 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.



Jhn 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.



Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord



Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which

hear the word of God, and do it.



Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.



Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.



So from those passages it becomes crystal clear to what Jesus' mission was. His mission was to make people believe in the ONE WHO SENT HIM. Jesus says it so many times, the one who sent him, believe in the one who sent me. Jesus always makes it clear about the one who sent him which is God, hence Jesus' mission was not to come and die for us and then rise on the third day, Jesus' mission was to come and spread the word of God, for people to believe in the word of God and keep it, and for people to believe in God. Jesus could not make it anymore clear, every time he performed a miracle, everything he was given he always said it was from the father, he always wanted to make it clear that someone had sent him, and that the people should believe in the one that sent him!



Now secondly there is a huge problem if Jesus died! If as Christians say Jesus is God, then how can God possibly die? God is above death. God does not die, so the fact that Jesus did die shows he is not God. Believers in trinity will say there are three persons in the God-head, so hence God did not really die since God is triune, however so how does part of God die? That is insane to say the least. I would love to know how part of God dies, and how does God die. These questions have never been given a good answer by any living Christian. So the fact is Jesus did not come to die for your sins, this is a simple myth with no foundation, Jesus came to bring you to God, to make you believe in the one who sent him. That was his overall mission.



Thirdly there are quite a few problems with the entire crucifixion episode. Christians and Jesus claim he died of his own will, however so this is not true, as the Bible says something completely different! Jesus himself states that he does nothing of his own will:



Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.



There are more passages of Jesus saying he does not do his own will but that shall do for now. So Jesus himself made it crystal clear that HE DOES NOT DO HIS OWN WILL. So therefore for Jesus in the Bible to have said I lay down my life on my own will is a contradiction, and is Jesus lying because he said he does only his father's will. Hence that is just one problem with the supposed Jesus dying for our sins. Secondly Jesus saying I do this of my own will contradicts another passage from the OT in which Christians love to use as a prophecy for Jesus, this prophecy states:



Isaiah 53: Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; AND THE LORD HAS LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; FOR THE TRANSGRESSION OF MY PEOPLE HE WAS STRICKEN. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, AND HE WILL BEAR THEIR INIQUITIES. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. FOR HE BORE SIN OF MANY, and made intercession for the transgressors." NIV



Hence even the supposed prophecy from Isaiah. which is supposedly talking about Jesus' crucifixion says it was THE LORDS WILL to crush him. The lord speaking in Isaiah is not Jesus, so hence Jesus saying I do it on my own will contradicts this prophecy, contradicts himself in the NT when he says he does nothing of his own will and in fact it shows that the Jesus of the NT does not know what he's talking about and seems to be lying. I for one don't believe Jesus is any of that, but the NT makes him out to be like that which is sad and which shows the AUTHORS are the ones who had no idea of what they were talking about. Thirdly Jesus saying I do this of my own will causes further problems because Jesus was not being very truthful, he was saying something that was not in his heart, which is that he was ready to give up his life and so on, here are the passages which show his heart did not reflect what his mouth said:



Hebrews 5:1-8: 1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered



So it is apparent Jesus did not want do die at all! His heart did not reflect what his mouth was saying, hence in a way he was indeed lying. He was not ready to lay his life down, he was afraid to do so and so on. Christians can say oh well he was a man so of course he would be! There are several men in this world who have said they are willing to die for something, and have died for that something, but in the process they did not get afraid nor cried or became fearful. When you are very convinced about something, and committed, you will not become fearful and start crying and praying to be saved. This only happens if you change your mind, or your oath was not truthful and did not reflect your heart.



So that response by a Christian will not work. So the facts are clear, the supposed mission of Jesus which was to come and die for us and rise on the third day has so many fallacies that it can't be taken seriously. Unless you choose to call Jesus a liar, a coward, and a man who did not know what he was talking about. I don't think you would want to do that now would you? But if you do believe in the crucifixion of Jesus and him rising on the third day, then you do certainly believe that which is indeed a grave sin!



THE MIRACLES AND GREAT WORKS PERFORMED BY THE SENT ONE



Now Christians love to always come to us Muslims and say that Jesus did this and Jesus did that to show that he is God. Some of these great miracles they mention is that Jesus forgave sin, granted eternal life, healed the blind etc.



They claim for Jesus to be able to forgive sin must make him God. They claim for him to be able to grant eternal life makes him God. Now this is a major fallacy for one major reason, when Jesus does humanly things, a Christian will immediately quote Philippians to show Jesus became a servant of man so it's normal. However when Jesus does something great they will jump and say this shows Jesus is God and shows he is MORE THAN A MAN. That is hilarious indeed, but the fact is you can't have both at once.



If you accept that Jesus is just a normal man, who became a servant, then him performing several great works and miracles is not anything special. It is just God giving him this right since he has become a servant of God. If you say Jesus is more than a man for performing certain miracles this then contradicts the passage from Philippians! You can't have it both ways, you must pick one, but either choice still leaves you with a problem.



Now let us quote what Jesus himself said about the miracles and great works he performed, which will show that him being able to forgive sins, grant eternal life is not something very special:



Jhn 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;



John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me



So Jesus himself said it, EVERYTHING HE HAS IS FROM THE FATHER. So every great miracle he did, is not from himself. Jesus is not independent at all. He is fully dependant on some one else. So him forgiving sin, granting eternal life is not from his own independent power, it is a power given to him, not owned by him, and that is a big difference.



There is a difference when you can forgive sin on your own, or grant eternal life on your own. That is indeed something God does. However when you are GIVEN that right, that is a total different case, the fact is Jesus was given that right, he did not own it.



So him forgiving sins and granting eternal life is nothing special at all. He was given this power, what is special in that? Every prophet is given blessings and great things from God, just like Jesus.



Jesus himself admitted it, so why don't Christians say this? Why don't they say that EVERYTHING that Jesus did was not from himself? Why don't they give the whole truth? The fact is that this once again proves that Jesus is a prophet, for all prophets are given several great things from God. Jesus was no exception and he himself admitted that all things he had were from God. Therefore these works don't make Jesus God, not at all!



So this is not really a good argument for Christians. It completely fails.



THE DENIAL OF BEING GOD BY THE SENT ONE



Now many Christians always claim Jesus is God. Yet there is not single passage in the NT of Jesus saying I AM GOD WORSHIP ME. Why is that? In the OT there are several passages in which God says I am God and so on. Why does Jesus not say it once? Coincidence? I think not.



The fact that Jesus says I am not God proves nothing, because if Jesus never made the claim to being God, then why should he go around saying he is something he is not when he never made the claim? Its like I'm not a thief, should I go around telling people I'm not a thief? The burden of proof is on Christian shoulders not mine, if you make a claim on somebody, then you must show that person making the claim, you cannot counter and say show me where he didn't make the claim. If you make a claim on someone you must provide proof, like men can't go around calling women an adulterer without proof can they? They need witnesses, so you can't go making a claim without proof, so hence you must provide the verse where Jesus says I AM GOD WORSHIP ME, not the other way around where I have to get you the verse of Jesus saying I am not God.



Anyway Jesus did in fact deny being God. Jesus denied being God when he denied being good in the sense that God is Good:



Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?



Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.



So Jesus clearly denied being good in the sense that God is good, there is no way around it no matter what you try to say. So the fact Jesus denied this shows he is not God.

Secondly Jesus claimed to be limited in knowledge, God is ALL-KNOWING! Christians will love to say the man Jesus is limited, however lets read the verse and see for ourselves:



Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.



So notice what Jesus said, he said his father ONLY. Meaning no one else knows, including the DIVINE Jesus. The divine Jesus is supposed to be the Jesus who is all powerful and all knowing, however so this verse shows that even the divine Jesus was not all-knowing since Jesus said ONLY the Father knows meaning nobody else. So hence the argument that Christians always put up of Jesus the man did not know wont work, because Jesus says ONLY the Father, so that includes divine Jesus so therefore even divine Jesus is not all-knowing so therefore Jesus is not God because God is all-knowing. So hence when Jesus made this statement he did indeed deny being God, because he denied being all-knowing, and God is all-knowing. So Jesus fails the test of being God.



So hence Jesus denied being good in the sense that God is good, and Jesus denied being all-knowing and God is all-knowing. Therefore Jesus is not God. Case closed.







CONCLUSION



So in conclusion we have seen that the Bible teaches that Jesus is NOT God, rather he was a prophet of God who was sent to the children of Israel with the task of bringing them back to God. All I have done is quote the Bible, I have not produced a single passage from the Quran, or quote a single hadith, yet we have still seen that the Bible and the supposed quotes of Jesus show that they fully agree with the Noble Quran!

And Allah knows best!



رحمك الله يا سمية

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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-14-2012 الساعة : 09:21 PM

المجموعة الثانية ( تجاهلت الرد 6 و 1)

الرد 2
Who wrote the Gospel of Luke?

الرد3 ( افضل معرفة الرسالة منك التي ردها عليك لانني لم افهم قصده)

الرد4 من قس لا ادرى هل هي من المبشر الذي طلبنا منه ان يثبت ان المسيح هو الله

Question
Christ is God?
Why?


الرد 5 هو نفسه 4

الرد 6


Could not God stop Satan?

Could God stop Satan and persecute him without this scheme (God's incarnation in a human form, in the character of Jesus as claimed by Christians to deceive Satan and made him think that (Christ) was a man), and would it be right for God to do so? If the answer is yes, then God does not need to plot a scheme to deceive Satan and crucify Himself or "His son, Jesus". Was it an obligation upon God to practice justice on Satan by stopping him from his mischievous acts? If it were not, then Satan would be permitted to operate his evil doings at all times since there is no difference between one time and another. If the Christians claimed that God was incapable of stopping Satan, then they would be accusing God of being weak (powerless) to restrain Satan. Such a perception of God is considered by all religions as the worst type of disbelief. Such a conclusion is similar to the atheists' claim that light could not prevent the world from evil.



رحمك الله يا سمية

رقم العضوية : 8411
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المشاركات : 16,376
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شمائل غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور شمائل


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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-14-2012 الساعة : 09:23 PM

السلام عليكم

بداية الله يعطيك العافية اختي نوف

اسفة كتير على التأخير بالرد لانو واخذة اجازة من منتدى وافية له من وضع آمان

تم الرد على ردودهم بالترتيب ( مع تجاهل الردود غير الجادة )

نسأل الله الاخلاص في القول والعمل

دمت بعز الاسلام



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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-16-2012 الساعة : 10:51 AM

رد بعد ارسال Jesus Christ - Son of God? (part 1 of 2)



I’m not going to reply to most of this because I know what the truth is. My degree in theology says so. But what I will address is son of GOD. In the bible days, son of means equal to, not as we see it to day son of a father or mother. Meaning son of meant, Jesus was equal to GOD, he could do anything GOD could do, and he had the word living in him because the word became flesh and that is JESUS. No other element needs to be discussed. Because anyone who studys the word of GOD acurretly, knows this to be true.

Kliphton Senior

(Twitter&Skype) kliphton72

(iMessage&facetime) <mailto:kliphton@me.com> kliphton@me.com

(Marriage Blog) <http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com/> Christian Marriage in the real world

(Marriage group) <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/committed-married-christians> committed-married-christians : committed married Christians

(face book) <http://facebook.com/kliphandsharrie> Incompatible Browser | Facebook

From: christian-encouragement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:christian-encouragement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nov Mov
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 11:23 AM
To: undisclosed recipients:
Subject: [christian-encouragement] Jesus Christ - Son of God? (part 1 of 2): The Meaning of “Son of God”

“One of the most striking differences between a cat and a lie is
that a cat has only nine lives.”

—Mark Twain, Pudd’nhead Wilson’s Calendar

Son of God, son of David, or son of Man? Jesus is identified as “son of David” fourteen times in the New Testament, starting with the very first verse (Matthew 1:1). The Gospel of Luke documents forty-one generations between Jesus and David, while Matthew lists twenty-six. Jesus, a distant descendant, can only wear the “son of David” title metaphorically. But how then should we understand the title, “son of God?”
The “Trilemma,” a common proposal of Christian missionaries, states that “Jesus was either a lunatic, a liar, or the Son of God, as he claimed to be.” For the sake of argument, let’s agree that Jesus was neither a lunatic nor a liar. Let’s also agree he was preciselywhat he claimed to be. But what, exactly, was that? Jesus called himself “Son of Man” frequently, consistently, perhaps even emphatically, but where did he call himself “Son of God?”
Let’s back up. What does “Son of God” mean in the first place? No legitimate Christian sect suggests that God took a wife and had a child, and most certainly none conceive that God fathered a child through a human mother outside of marriage. Furthermore, to suggest that God physically mated with an element of His creation is so far beyond the limits of religious tolerance as to plummet down the sheer cliff of blasphemy, chasing the mythology of the Greeks.
With no rational explanation available within the tenets of Christian doctrine, the only avenue for closure is to claim yet one more doctrinal mystery. Here is where the Muslim recalls the question posed in the Quran:
“…How can He have a son when He has no consort?...” (Quran 6:101)
…while others shout, “But God can do anything!” The Islamic position, however, is that God doesn’t do inappropriate things, only Godly things. In the Islamic viewpoint, God’s character is integral with His being and consistent with His majesty.
So again, what does “Son of God” mean? And if Jesus Christ has exclusive rights to the term, why does the Bible record, “...for I (God) am a father to Israel, and Ephraim (i.e. Israel) is my firstborn” (Jeremiah 31:9) and, “...Israel is My son, even my firstborn” (Exodus 4:22)? Taken in the context of Romans 8:14, which reads, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God,”many scholars conclude that “Son of God” is metaphorical and, as with christos,doesn’t imply exclusivity. After all, The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish Religionconfirms that in Jewish idiom “Son of God” is clearly metaphorical. To quote, “Son of God, term occasionally found in Jewish literature, biblical and post-biblical, but nowhere implying physical descent from the Godhead.”[1] Hasting’sBible Dictionary comments:
In Semitic usage “sonship” is a conception somewhat loosely employed to denote moral rather than physical or metaphysical relationship. Thus “sons of Belial” (Jg 19:22 etc.) are wicked men, not descendants of Belial; and in the NT the “children of the bridechamber” are wedding guests. So a “son of God” is a man, or even a people, who reflect the character of God. There is little evidence that the title was used in Jewish circles of the Messiah, and a sonship which implied more than a moral relationship would be contrary to Jewish monotheism.[2]
And in any case, the list of candidates for “son of God” begins with Adam, as per Luke 3:38: “...Adam, which was the son of God.”
Those who rebut by quoting Matthew 3:17 (“And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, ‘This is My beloved son, in whom I am well pleased’”) have overlooked the point that the Bible describes many people, Israel and Adam included, as “sons of God.” Both II Samuel 7:13-14 and I Chronicles 22:10 read,“He (Solomon) shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son.”
Entire nations are referred to as sons, or children of God. Examples include:
Genesis 6:2, “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men…”
Genesis 6:4, “There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men…”
Deuteronomy 14:1, “Ye are the children of the Lord your God.”
Job 1:6, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD…”
Job 2:1, “Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD…”
Job 38:7, “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”
Philippians 2:15, “that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation…”
1 John 3:1-2, “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! … Beloved, now we are children of God…”
In Matthew 5:9 Jesus says, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” Later in Matthew 5:45, Jesus prescribed to his followers the attainment of noble attributes, “that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” Not exclusively his Father, but their Father …

Copyright © 2007 Laurence B. Brown; used by permission.
The above excerpt is taken from Dr. Brown's forthcoming book, MisGod'ed, which is expected to be published along with its sequel, God'ed. Both books can be viewed on Dr. Brown's website, http://www.LevelTruth.com. Dr. Brown can be contacted at BrownL38@yahoo.com <mailto:BrownL38%40yahoo.com>



________________________________
Footnotes:
[1] Werblowsky, R. J. Zwi and Geoffrey Wigoder. p. 653.
[2] Hastings, James. Dictionary of The Bible. p. 143.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



داعية متميزة

رقم العضوية : 15598
الإنتساب : Feb 2012
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نـوفـ غير متواجد حالياً عرض البوم صور نـوفـ


  مشاركة رقم : 124  
كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-16-2012 الساعة : 10:51 AM

رد بعد ارسال Jesus Christ - Son of God? (part 1 of 2)



I’m not going to reply to most of this because I know what the truth is. My degree in theology says so. But what I will address is son of GOD. In the bible days, son of means equal to, not as we see it to day son of a father or mother. Meaning son of meant, Jesus was equal to GOD, he could do anything GOD could do, and he had the word living in him because the word became flesh and that is JESUS. No other element needs to be discussed. Because anyone who studys the word of GOD acurretly, knows this to be true.

Kliphton Senior

(Twitter&Skype) kliphton72

(iMessage&facetime) <mailto:kliphton@me.com> kliphton@me.com

(Marriage Blog) <http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com/> Christian Marriage in the real world

(Marriage group) <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/committed-married-christians> committed-married-christians : committed married Christians

(face book) <http://facebook.com/kliphandsharrie> Incompatible Browser | Facebook

From: christian-encouragement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:christian-encouragement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nov Mov
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 11:23 AM
To: undisclosed recipients:
Subject: [christian-encouragement] Jesus Christ - Son of God? (part 1 of 2): The Meaning of “Son of God”

“One of the most striking differences between a cat and a lie is
that a cat has only nine lives.”

—Mark Twain, Pudd’nhead Wilson’s Calendar

Son of God, son of David, or son of Man? Jesus is identified as “son of David” fourteen times in the New Testament, starting with the very first verse (Matthew 1:1). The Gospel of Luke documents forty-one generations between Jesus and David, while Matthew lists twenty-six. Jesus, a distant descendant, can only wear the “son of David” title metaphorically. But how then should we understand the title, “son of God?”
The “Trilemma,” a common proposal of Christian missionaries, states that “Jesus was either a lunatic, a liar, or the Son of God, as he claimed to be.” For the sake of argument, let’s agree that Jesus was neither a lunatic nor a liar. Let’s also agree he was preciselywhat he claimed to be. But what, exactly, was that? Jesus called himself “Son of Man” frequently, consistently, perhaps even emphatically, but where did he call himself “Son of God?”
Let’s back up. What does “Son of God” mean in the first place? No legitimate Christian sect suggests that God took a wife and had a child, and most certainly none conceive that God fathered a child through a human mother outside of marriage. Furthermore, to suggest that God physically mated with an element of His creation is so far beyond the limits of religious tolerance as to plummet down the sheer cliff of blasphemy, chasing the mythology of the Greeks.
With no rational explanation available within the tenets of Christian doctrine, the only avenue for closure is to claim yet one more doctrinal mystery. Here is where the Muslim recalls the question posed in the Quran:
“…How can He have a son when He has no consort?...” (Quran 6:101)
…while others shout, “But God can do anything!” The Islamic position, however, is that God doesn’t do inappropriate things, only Godly things. In the Islamic viewpoint, God’s character is integral with His being and consistent with His majesty.
So again, what does “Son of God” mean? And if Jesus Christ has exclusive rights to the term, why does the Bible record, “...for I (God) am a father to Israel, and Ephraim (i.e. Israel) is my firstborn” (Jeremiah 31:9) and, “...Israel is My son, even my firstborn” (Exodus 4:22)? Taken in the context of Romans 8:14, which reads, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God,”many scholars conclude that “Son of God” is metaphorical and, as with christos,doesn’t imply exclusivity. After all, The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish Religionconfirms that in Jewish idiom “Son of God” is clearly metaphorical. To quote, “Son of God, term occasionally found in Jewish literature, biblical and post-biblical, but nowhere implying physical descent from the Godhead.”[1] Hasting’sBible Dictionary comments:
In Semitic usage “sonship” is a conception somewhat loosely employed to denote moral rather than physical or metaphysical relationship. Thus “sons of Belial” (Jg 19:22 etc.) are wicked men, not descendants of Belial; and in the NT the “children of the bridechamber” are wedding guests. So a “son of God” is a man, or even a people, who reflect the character of God. There is little evidence that the title was used in Jewish circles of the Messiah, and a sonship which implied more than a moral relationship would be contrary to Jewish monotheism.[2]
And in any case, the list of candidates for “son of God” begins with Adam, as per Luke 3:38: “...Adam, which was the son of God.”
Those who rebut by quoting Matthew 3:17 (“And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, ‘This is My beloved son, in whom I am well pleased’”) have overlooked the point that the Bible describes many people, Israel and Adam included, as “sons of God.” Both II Samuel 7:13-14 and I Chronicles 22:10 read,“He (Solomon) shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son.”
Entire nations are referred to as sons, or children of God. Examples include:
Genesis 6:2, “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men…”
Genesis 6:4, “There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men…”
Deuteronomy 14:1, “Ye are the children of the Lord your God.”
Job 1:6, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD…”
Job 2:1, “Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD…”
Job 38:7, “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”
Philippians 2:15, “that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation…”
1 John 3:1-2, “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! … Beloved, now we are children of God…”
In Matthew 5:9 Jesus says, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” Later in Matthew 5:45, Jesus prescribed to his followers the attainment of noble attributes, “that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” Not exclusively his Father, but their Father …

Copyright © 2007 Laurence B. Brown; used by permission.
The above excerpt is taken from Dr. Brown's forthcoming book, MisGod'ed, which is expected to be published along with its sequel, God'ed. Both books can be viewed on Dr. Brown's website, http://www.LevelTruth.com. Dr. Brown can be contacted at BrownL38@yahoo.com <mailto:BrownL38%40yahoo.com>



________________________________
Footnotes:
[1] Werblowsky, R. J. Zwi and Geoffrey Wigoder. p. 653.
[2] Hastings, James. Dictionary of The Bible. p. 143.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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كاتب الموضوع : أم البنات المنتدى : الدعوة في مجموعات جوجل قديم بتاريخ : 04-16-2012 الساعة : 10:56 AM

اقتباس :
الرد3 ( افضل معرفة الرسالة منك التي ردها عليك لانني لم افهم قصده)

لم افهم ماذا تريدين


اقتباس :
الرد4 من قس لا ادرى هل هي من المبشر الذي طلبنا منه ان يثبت ان المسيح هو الله

لا


اقتباس :
question
christ is god?
Why?

هل هذا رد ارسله


اقتباس :
الرد 5 هو نفسه 4

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الموسوعة الكاملة للمجموعات البريدية الإسلامية شمائل المكتبة الدعوية 6 08-30-2012 05:54 AM

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